Kiprusoff may have more value than ever - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Flash Walken · 03-04-2013, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Going after Ryan O'Reily, who was 21 a month ago isn't a sign of that. That's the point.

Giving up a top 5 pick in an offersheet that would also leave your team without a pick until the 4th round doesn't exactly scream rebuilding, either.

CaramonLS · 03-04-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoFlamesGo1989

Isn't this the same thing as Ryan O'Rielly though?

Yes and no.

If Calgary signs Ramo he does not have to pass waivers (their own RFA).
If Colorado signs Ramo he does have to pass waivers (another team's RFA).

Winsor_Pilates · 03-04-2013, 01:45 PM

Trade him please, and Iggy.
I'm firmly in the camp that wants to see us get something back while their values are still strong.
I fear holding onto these assets and watching them devalue further will have long term horrendous impact on the franchise.

the2bears · 03-04-2013, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Read it in the Sun yesterday so I believe fact.

I haven't lived in Calgary since 1999, has the Sun really changed that much?

MrMastodonFarm · 03-04-2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Giving up a top 5 pick in an offersheet that would also leave your team without a pick until the 4th round doesn't exactly scream rebuilding, either.

Oh, it was top 5 now?

I agree with that last part but it doesn't scream WIN NOW either, which was my point.

zamler · 03-04-2013, 02:00 PM

I find this "win now" mentality incredibly bizarre. You can have that mindset if you truly are icing a team that is a legitimate contender. But when your team shows consistently they can't even get into the post season, why on earth would you still pursue the win now mentality? It makes no sense.

Sure the organization wants the extra revenue they get from playoff hockey, but when you try and take shortcuts to get there and they keep failing, how stupid do you have to be to keep using the same failed strategies.

Dienasty · 03-04-2013, 02:16 PM

I think this thread is completely off base.

Carolina is still Wards team and they have Peters waiting in the wings and Dan Ellis has been servicable as a veteran backup

Flordia? Why would they mortgage there future for a goalie who has 2 years remaining on his contract. Did you forget they have the #1 goalie prospect in the NHL (Markstrom) and are last in the NHL right now so they aren't really in a buy mode.

Howard has still put up better #'s then Kipper this year is younger and cheaper... no way does Detroit make a move for Kipper, I think his stats decline is more the regression of the team (losing Lidstrom+Stuart in the offseason) rather then him in particular

Tampa have Lindback and aren't going to change now, they have given him what 20 games? I don't think they give up on him this soon.

Sorry the market for Kipper is awful, the team that made sense the last couple years (Chicago, Washington, Philly) have all figuring out there tending (or in Philly's case stuck with the contract).

Not many teams are willing to trade for a 35+ goalie who just had a significant injury after posting dreadful numbers to start the season.

Flash Walken · 03-04-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Oh, it was top 5 now?

I agree with that last part but it doesn't scream WIN NOW either, which was my point.

It was top 5 previously, it was a 6th overall pick at the time of the offer and is 8th as we speak. Not really something to squabble over.

It screams one of two things: 1) Win Now or, 2) We don't have a plan

Rather than pick a guy at 6th overall in the draft who is likely to turn out to be as good or better than the guy they wanted to trade the pick for, they wanted to trade for a player that could help NOW. There are as many Al Montoya, Rico Fata and Gilbert Brule's drafted at 6 as there are Peter Forsbergs and Mikko Koivus and Oliver Ekman-Larssons. If they didn't want help NOW, why wouldn't they just wait 3 months to get a comparable player?

I will tell you why and I made a thread on it a year ago:

The Flames aren't interested in draft picks or young prospects, they want contributing players or players they believe will contribute in the next 6-12 months. Further, they are willing to move draft picks (win later) to get help NOW.

MrMastodonFarm · 03-04-2013, 02:25 PM

O'Reilly was for help now and the future.

Pretty cut and dry.

Vinny01 · 03-04-2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

O'Reilly was for help now and the future.

Pretty cut and dry.

Exactly RoR was a player that was likely the future captain of the team. Add him, Kipper, and Backlund to the current .500 team and the Flames are not surrendering a top 5 pick probably not even a top 10 pick more likely 12-18 which I would give up for RoR anyday.

Flash Walken · 03-04-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

O'Reilly was for help now and the future.

Pretty cut and dry.

I'm glad we agree.

Phanuthier · 03-04-2013, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

O'Reilly was for help now and the future.

Pretty cut and dry.

I would agree to that too, didn't think my comment would cause such a bruhaha. I guess I could have worded it differently. Oh well. Either way, I don't think the Flames are looking to move Kiprusoff if Kiprusoff is their best opportunity to make the playoffs this year.

Gary83 · 03-04-2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Oh, it was top 5 now?

I agree with that last part but it doesn't scream WIN NOW either, which was my point.

Duhhh. The only way to rebuild is to draft 17 and 18 year olds.

afc wimbledon · 03-04-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Exactly RoR was a player that was likely the future captain of the team. Add him, Kipper, and Backlund to the current .500 team and the Flames are not surrendering a top 5 pick probably not even a top 10 pick more likely 12-18 which I would give up for RoR anyday.

That was my problem with the move though, had RoR joined the team it would be good enough to hang around at 7th through 10th but without a top 5 pick at least once or twice would likely never be able to put a team around him that would do better.

Unless O'Rielly became a franchise level center and the team got quite lucky with 3 or 4 other picks then you end up halting the decline but mot having the cheap young talent that allows improvement.

Tinordi · 03-04-2013, 03:03 PM

O'Reilly is a nice player but not a franchise player or a proven first line player. Giving up your top ten pick (in this draft which is described as very talent laden in the first 10 picks) for him is win now mode. Can't be categorized any other way.

HELPNEEDED · 03-04-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinordi

O'Reilly is a nice player but not a franchise player or a proven first line player. Giving up your top ten pick (in this draft which is described as very talent laden in the first 10 picks) for him is win now mode. Can't be categorized any other way.

Cause top 10 picks are gauranteed to be better then ROR

Zulu29 · 03-04-2013, 03:10 PM

The thing we have going for us is Kipper's contract vs someone like Luongo. He's probably my favourite Flame but I don't get the feeling he's gonna stick around past next season. Might as well get something for him if we can.

3 Justin 3 · 03-04-2013, 03:12 PM

Ward is out for almost 2 months?

I have him in my pool.

Tinordi · 03-04-2013, 03:12 PM

Trade markets for goalies are notoriously brutal. Rarely see top goalies traded mid-season, rarely see big returns for them.

Add that on to the fact that Kipper hasn't really played much and when he did, he didn't exactly look good I think we may be overestimating what kind of return we'd get for him.

If he comes in and plays lights out then yes there may be some offers but as we're dictated by the win-now mandate, there is no way we'd trade him if he was helping us squeak into the playoffs so this conversation is a non-starter.

afc wimbledon · 03-04-2013, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Cause top 10 picks are gauranteed to be better then ROR

Your top ten might not be better than RoR but you get several of them over the course of a few years if you allow the team to naturally devolve down to its real talent level, perhaps a top 5 this year, maybe a top 3 next year and a top 10 the year after, and that is assuming that you don't sell off your assets and maximise your picks.

On top of that those picks are all on cheap contracts with 7 year RFA status where as RoR is expensive and will possibly walk in 3 years.

It is really important to realise that in a contracting cap league the talent of the player is only part of the equation.