Should Feaster get fired over the O'Reilly offersheet fiasco

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by moon

3 (Tavares, Kane and Duchene) with a 4th (Schenn) likely to do it this year.

If that draft is redone right now he probably goes 6th at best behind those 4 and Hedman.

well that is highly debatable especially Hedman but still he is a sure thing whereas the draft is a risk as always Jared Cowen in top 10 Magnus lol

my point is he is in that top 10 range for sure

Schenn may be on that pace this year, he is also another year older

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by dino7c

ROR is better than a top 5 or 10 pick most likely...ROR was drafted in 2009, there are what two or maybe three guys drafted in the first round that year that have put up 55+

Yep, when was the last time the flames had a draft pick score 55 points by age 21. It would have been a great move if it had worked. Waiver mess aside, It's ridiculous to call this a win now move, it was a solid long term move. It would be at least five years before a number 5 draft pick would be better than oreilly, if ever, which is probably our most likely draft spot.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by FAN

Like I said, I'm willing to excuse him for such "incompetence" given the likelihood that there are other normally competent GMs who were unaware of the waiver rule at the time. But if you are talking about incompetence, the incompetence extends to Weisbrod and whoever is in Feaster's inner circle.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=40740

Michael Holditch and Mike Burke handle the CBA interpretations for the Flames.

Burke is apparently the guy who liaises with the league on these types of matters.

Apologies to their families as the mob here will likely burn down their houses.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

ROR is better than a top 5 or 10 pick most likely...ROR was drafted in 2009, there are what two or maybe three guys drafted in the first round that year that have put up 55+

Whilst he might be you also have to factor in that you are paying him 5 million, no entry level discount plus a third round pick, plus you lose 3 years of rfa status for a player who may well prove difficult to sign in 2 years.

There is way more to drafting than just 'can the kid play' in this cap world.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The lack of respect to draft picks (primarily 2nd rounders) dates back to Darryl Sutter but we have seen Feaster give up two now (Kotalik and Cammalleri). It's pretty clear that the organization as a whole considers draft picks currency and that there isn't much of an appetite to build a team from within. ROR may have turned out to be a great player but in supposedly a very solid draft the Flames would have left themselves with no picks until the 4th round which puts any chances of building a quality team from within into question.

I'm scared. Scared that they are going to now dangle more draft picks for more quick fix players as indications are that the Flames are calling teams looking for a deal. There seems to be zero patience or vision. It's a hopeless feeling as a fan to realize that your team has become the prime example of how not to run your NHL team.

This.

The brain trust was willing to risk losing 1st and 3rd for nothing so you can bet your behind that they are itching to move the first to get help to "win now"

Scary indeed.

[dino7c]

waiver stuff aside I think it would have been great for the Flames, likely far better than anyone they would have drafted. I assume with him in the line up and Kipper back this team would be above a 10th overall pick anyway. Obviously we will never know.

In general I would trade a 1st for a sure thing young player...the draft really is a crap shoot when you look back at past drafts

[moon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well that is highly debatable especially Hedman but still he is a sure thing whereas the draft is a risk as always Jared Cowen in top 10 Magnus lol

my point is he is in that top 10 range for sure

Schenn may be on that pace this year, he is also another year older

I haven't watched TB this year so just going off reports that Hedman is playing a lot better this year.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

waiver stuff aside I think it would have been great for the Flames, likely far better than anyone they would have drafted. I assume with him in the line up and Kipper back this team would be above a 10th overall pick anyway. Obviously we will never know.

In general I would trade a 1st for a sure thing young player...the draft really is a crap shoot when you look back at past drafts

The Draft may be a crap shoot but its a free crap shoot, everything else costs either cap space or players or picks.

[Phanuthier]

Before, I was in "option D : honest, ignorant mistake" but if Feaster/fanboys say that he knew about it and thought he could lawyer his way out of this fiasco?

Fire his ass, make sure he's nowhere near being allowed to make a decision for any organization you are involved with within 6 degree's of freedom and have a restraining order from this time.

What a stupid mistake to gamble 1st, 3rd and $2.5M. Even for a 7th round pick, I would pick up the phone and spend 2 minutes to make sure my assumption is correct. I remember one (of many) Feaster quotes talking about preserving assets, deficit spending or some lawyer word like that; basically this organization can't waste assets. To risk what could be our most prized asset because you were too lazy? Unbelievably stupid.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by dino7c

In general I would trade a 1st for a sure thing young player...the draft really is a crap shoot when you look back at past drafts

Would you trade a 1st for a sure thing bottom 6 winger? What about a guy like Artem Anisimov? Trading away 1st round picks is often the recipe for ruin. Nobody is going to offer a sure thing 1st line young player or top pairing defenseman for a 1st round pick unless it's a guaranteed top 3 pick so you are left with "sure thing" players with limited upside.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

To risk what could be our most prized asset because you were too lazy? Unbelievably stupid.

Or alternatively, arrogant enough to think you could win in a battle of interpretation with the NHL. Which, for this franchise, is unbelievably stupid.

[cDnStealth]

I don't want to jump on the fire Feaster band wagon but in all honesty, why the hell wouldn't Feaster and Co. call the NHL to clarify something like this before they submitted their offer sheet? Their "interpretation" of the rule was essentially a guess and I cannot believe that they'd risk draft picks and money without being one hundred percent certain that ROR wouldn't have to pass through waivers. The whole thing screams Bush league. Really you couldn't be bothered to make a 5 minute phone call to find out exactly how this rule worked?

[Vinny01]

I waited a couple days to answer the poll and today decided NO.

For one I think the lack of clarity around the language in the MOU coupled with a likely plea from the PA to let RoR play for the team he signed with would have resulted in the Flames getting the player had the offer not been matched. The fact the Avs, the agent, and many teams did not know this makes me think the Flames have a case. The lagnuage would be clear moving forward.

Secondly I really warmed up to the offer sheet idea. I think O'Rielly would have been a near perfect realistic add for the Flames. He would have come in at 22 and within 1-3 years he would be getting the C from Iggy. He fills a massive organizational need and even if he didn't develop into an elite first line C he would have been a leader, warrior, consistent 200 ft player. The Flames likely would have worked out a 5-8 year extension this summer and avoid the $6.5M qualifying offer.

I know Jay has little to work with but he has 2x tried to address the center ice position. He has very little in terms of assets to work with and in both cases took an honest try. Having said that he took 2 long shot chances that didn't work out so he shouldn't get that much credit. I don't think he should be fired over this move however.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

The whole thing screams Bush league. Really you couldn't be bothered to make a 5 minute phone call to find out exactly how this rule worked?

Sums it up for me, Feaser was reckless which is scary given the stakes.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by zamler

Sums it up for me, Feaser was reckless which is scary given the stakes.

I dont think it was just Feaster being reckless. I think Edwards and Ken King new the risk going into it and still gave him the "ok".

Feaster should not be fired for this one incident, considering the other 2 are just as guilty. I think he will be fired at the end of the year when the 2 other mandates of making the playoffs and re-signing Iggy are not met.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I dont think it was just Feaster being reckless. I think Edwards and Ken King new the risk going into it and still gave him the "ok".

I won't discount this possibility. If true, then obviously I can't blame Feaster, except maybe why would he want to stay on as GM when he can't manage without KK and Edwards looking over his shoulder constantly.

Now if K. King/Edwards did green light this, that was incredibly negligent of them.

[CaptainYooh]

Seems like a lot of people dismiss Feaster and his staff as incompetent. I doubt that. I also don't think this was an"honest mistake". This was a calculated gamble. If I understand the consequences of Colorado not matching, at worst, Flames would have been responsible for a $2.5M signing bonus. Not a small change, OK. But there is no way this bonus would have gone undisputed legally by the Flames organization against the player and his agent for the misrepresentation. Also, his misspelled name on KHL roster would have added legal weight to the Flames' side of the argument. Other then some legal fees, there were hardly any other significant risks to Flames as an organization in this offer.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Seems like a lot of people dismiss Feaster and his staff as incompetent. I doubt that. I also don't think this was an"honest mistake". This was a calculated gamble. If I understand the consequences of Colorado not matching, at worst, Flames would have been responsible for a $2.5M signing bonus. Not a small change, OK. But there is no way this bonus would have gone undisputed legally by the Flames organization against the player and his agent for the misrepresentation. Also, his misspelled name on KHL roster would have added legal weight to the Flames' side of the argument. Other then some legal fees, there were hardly any other significant risks to Flames as an organization in this offer.

What could have been his calculation, that he thought a 1st, 3rd and $2.5M wasn't worth a 5 minute phone call?

I know in my job, where I deal with a lot less than $2.5M mistakes, my calculated gamble is 110% sure (100% sure, plus mitigation plans for in the most ridiculous cases possible that will likely never occur)... and even if a mistake does happen that out of my control (i.e. ROR signed and comes to Calgary no problems, but gets aids on the flight in), that shows up on my annual review.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

I don't want to jump on the fire Feaster band wagon but in all honesty, why the hell wouldn't Feaster and Co. call the NHL to clarify something like this before they submitted their offer sheet? Their "interpretation" of the rule was essentially a guess and I cannot believe that they'd risk draft picks and money without being one hundred percent certain that ROR wouldn't have to pass through waivers. The whole thing screams Bush league. Really you couldn't be bothered to make a 5 minute phone call to find out exactly how this rule worked?

If Feaster makes the call, the NHL says he has to go thru waivers therefore no offer sheet, it's dead. Feaster is no dummie, he knows he can beat this loophole so makes an offer, Avs match so the rest is moot.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

What could have been his calculation, that he thought a 1st, 3rd and $2.5M wasn't worth a 5 minute phone call? ...

Who knows? Maybe they were more concerned about keeping this move totally confidential.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't believe things like this happen accidentally. And, again, the risk of severely negative consequences was not that great considering all of the surrounding legal complications.