Now that Colorado has matched...

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by flameswin

If I've learned one thing in the last year or so, it's that Browna REALLY dislikes feaster. My lord.

The funny thing is, Browna has always been the most defensive of Flames management over the years of any poster, so I guess it sticks out more from him.

Feaster gets too much credit for trying (and failing). He talks a lot and generates a lot of talk, but he hasn't proven himself in any way yet.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

Feaster gets too much credit for trying (and failing). He talks a lot and generates a lot of talk, but he hasn't proven himself in any way yet.

I don't even give him too much credit for the O'Reilly Offer Sheet ... yes, it was a ballsy move, but it just showed how desperate this organization really is if you're willing to go without a pick in the first three rounds in a deep draft (I don't agree with the Flames' notion that ROR is a franchise player, but I think he's good enough to be worth the gamble ... but really, the willingness to try that after all this talking about putting more focus on the draft was surprising to me). Feaster is just throwing darts, hoping that one or two of them will hit. It would take courageous moves to really help this club long-term, but it hasn't happened yet (and won't happen) because either a) Feaster doesn't realize the necessity of change, or b) ownership doesn't allow it. If it's a), then Feaster has to go. If it's b), it really doesn't matter who's the GM of this team.

[jhunt223]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't even give him too much credit for the O'Reilly Offer Sheet ... yes, it was a ballsy move, but it just showed how desperate this organization really is if you're willing to go without a pick in the first three rounds in a deep draft (I don't agree with the Flames' notion that ROR is a franchise player, but I think he's good enough to be worth the gamble ... but really, the willingness to try that after all this talking about putting more focus on the draft was surprising to me). Feaster is just throwing darts, hoping that one or two of them will hit. It would take courageous moves to really help this club long-term, but it hasn't happened yet (and won't happen) because either a) Feaster doesn't realize the necessity of change, or b) ownership doesn't allow it. If it's a), then Feaster has to go. If it's b), it really doesn't matter who's the GM of this team.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't even give him too much credit for the O'Reilly Offer Sheet ... yes, it was a ballsy move, but it just showed how desperate this organization really is if you're willing to go without a pick in the first three rounds in a deep draft (I don't agree with the Flames' notion that ROR is a franchise player, but I think he's good enough to be worth the gamble ... but really, the willingness to try that after all this talking about putting more focus on the draft was surprising to me). Feaster is just throwing darts, hoping that one or two of them will hit. It would take courageous moves to really help this club long-term, but it hasn't happened yet (and won't happen) because either a) Feaster doesn't realize the necessity of change, or b) ownership doesn't allow it. If it's a), then Feaster has to go. If it's b), it really doesn't matter who's the GM of this team.

In a way it's not that ballsy, because it conforms to the 'be competitive now' philosophy that the ownership apparently imposes on him. They were only guaranteed to have O'Reilly until he's 25 and hits UFA status. It would be ballsy to convince the ownership that the time has come and take the risks involved in a proper rebuild.

Giving him credit for trying to make a move is a little weird. It's like him coming up with a trade and then saying that it was a great plan and the only hitch was that the other team's GM rejected it within hours. You don't get points for that.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by jhunt223

yeah, that didn't come out right. Maybe I didn't quite get my point across ... I think the offer sheet was "ballsy" in a way that it's a route that barely any GM goes - GMs who have done it in the past have been heavily criticized and you never know how much damage it can cause when it comes to relationships with other GMs. Not a big bridge to burn if it's a divisional rival like the Avs, but there's a good chance that other GMs don't like to see offer sheets too. I don't know if "ballsy" is really the right word though, as it's just now that I've seen that they had tried to trade for ROR before and the offer sheet was their last resort. In that case, "desperate" is definitely the better word. A hail-mary pass in football - going for the touchdown, but only because your back is against the wall.

The change I was referring to is much more fundamental than an offer sheet to ROR. It's accepting that you have to get substancially younger, get rid of dead flesh and understand that you have to build a team through the draft, not through free agency and hail-mary trades.

[CliffFletcher]

Nothing has changed; this teams needs to draft a new core. Not temporarily cobble together a somewhat better lineup through trades and FA signings. Draft. A new. Core.

[Yoho]

I don't envy Feasters job with ownerships mandate. Can you imagine having to work under "Win with the same team Darryl assembled, just add a couple players to it each season"

[Sakari]

Right now, I wouldn't be completely opposed to trading Bouwmeester. He's been great this season but his trade value is high now and I can see it going down at some point. It would clear up some cap space for the free agency in the offseason and we could very well bring in a good centerman.

[PeteMoss]

The Flames management has to be open minded to go either way. If they felt that O'Reilly was a franchise type guy and had the chance to go for it than they did. But they can't be steadfast in 'buy' mode. Clearly status quo isn't good enough. They should evaluate the returns they can get by selling and look at the chances of landing an elite center somewhere.

There's no rule than you can't buy and sell at the same time. If the return for Bouwmeester is strong and you feel you can get a good deal on a top young center... you can do both. That would of course indicate the willingness to believe that the team isn't a piece away and I don't think the Flames management team is creative enough to do it.

[CaramonLS]

What upsets me the most and why I am glad we didn't get O'Reilly is the overall concept of value. It is something that Flames management has misunderstood for quite some time now and it is the reason that we will end up paying more than other teams and be less successful than them at the same time.

If you look at just about every playoff team, you can point to the majority of players on their team and say with certainty, that they are playing up to the level or exceeding the value of their current contract. You need players playing outside of their contract.

How many players can you say that about on the Flames? How many millions do we routinely have sitting out - 4.5 at least between 2 Dmen?

How do you acquire value? It generally isn't through free agency, where you pay lots for mediocrity. It usually happens through drafting, resigning your own RFAs and occasionally trades. Rarely do you get full value on contracts on players who have been UFAs.

Paying huge dollars for ROR isn't going to get you the value you need. Especially if Feaster has evaluated him as a Franchise player.

The Flames need to refocus on the draft in order to acquire value.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

What upsets me the most and why I am glad we didn't get O'Reilly is the overall concept of value. It is something that Flames management has misunderstood for quite some time now and it is the reason that we will end up paying more than other teams and be less successful than them at the same time.

If you look at just about every playoff team, you can point to the majority of players on their team and say with certainty, that they are playing up to the level or exceeding the value of their current contract. You need players playing outside of their contract.

How many players can you say that about on the Flames? How many millions do we routinely have sitting out - 4.5 at least between 2 Dmen?

How do you acquire value? It generally isn't through free agency, where you pay lots for mediocrity. It usually happens through drafting, resigning your own RFAs and occasionally trades. Rarely do you get full value on contracts on players who have been UFAs.

Paying huge dollars for ROR isn't going to get you the value you need. Especially if Feaster has evaluated him as a Franchise player.

The Flames need to refocus on the draft in order to acquire value.

Exactly.

Free agents and trade acquisitions are expensive, which is fine, but you can't build your team with them. You can only supplement the final peieces with them.

The only free assets are draft picks. Each pick that becomes a player adds to your asset base. And they are less expensive than free agent acquisitions.

Build through the draft first, then supplement with free agents or trades.

[BigJim]

Now that the dust has settled, despite the Flames blowing the game last night, I think Feaster should be commended for trying to make the team better. We can debate whether Ryan O'Reilly is a "franchise" player or whether he was worth the cost in money terms or in the compensation, but to me, this shows some desire by the Flames for forward movement and change. I really hate the term "rebuild" because that means different things to different people. Tearing it all down, and getting franchise-changing draft choices that may help the team in 3 years is one option, but not the only one. It also presumes that such an approach is guaranteed, which it isn't.

In any event, sounds like the Avalanche fans are not overly thrilled with their management either, based upon this article and the comments.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...ginning/12692/

[greyshep]

I am disappointed we didnt land O'Reilly. However, to me it was a no lose situation.

It works, and we have addressed our center issue and "need to rebuild via youth" in the same move. Really it was just a way of accelerating the normal waiting period to see how your drafts turn out.

It didnt work and there is still some benefit.
1. It puts the Avs in a tough position for future negotiations
2. It makes the Avs better now which should in theory assist in making sure they dont take a higher draft position than us for the upcoming draft.

[Stay Golden]

Who knows maybe after the 2013 draft and who the Flames are able to select with their low 1st and 3rd wows us. Blessing in disguise not losing those picks who knows.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flamenfame

So Feaster thinks O'reilly is a franchise player. Im starting to understand Jankowski pick now

The Jankowski pick is still a good pick. Until its apparent that he isn't an NHL center, it's maybe the best pick the team has made since Phaneuf.

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The Flames management has to be open minded to go either way. If they felt that O'Reilly was a franchise type guy and had the chance to go for it than they did. But they can't be steadfast in 'buy' mode. Clearly status quo isn't good enough. They should evaluate the returns they can get by selling and look at the chances of landing an elite center somewhere.

There's no rule than you can't buy and sell at the same time. If the return for Bouwmeester is strong and you feel you can get a good deal on a top young center... you can do both. That would of course indicate the willingness to believe that the team isn't a piece away and I don't think the Flames management team is creative enough to do it.

You can get an elite centre one of two ways at this point: draft one, or try and sign Getzlaf. But I'm unsure why he'd come here given the organization's reputation at the moment.

So once again, we're stuck with 'draft one'. Because even if Jankowski becomes what the Flames hope he is, we're still two more centres away from being a true contender.

[saskflames69]

Seeing that we have become the new laughing stock of the league, I really don't care if the Flames just tank it from here on. A top 5 pick would be nice for once. Honestly they should just do it this year, it's not like we expect the team to make the playoffs.