[Rumour] Flames to move AHL affiliate to Utica NY. UPD: Canucks move affiliate to Utica

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

There are 30 NHL teams, and there are 30 AHL teams. To put a new team in Utica, some other team has to go.

That other team is The Heat. Heat leave Abby, go to Utica. Done. No domino affect.

The speculation The Divers would want an affiliate in Abby if The Heat left and would do something to get a team there is a separate issue.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Lethbridge, Saskatoon, or Regina could definitely support an AHL franchise I think. I realize that all those places have dub teams but still they're all reasonably close and the fan support would be there if some people feel an attachment to the big league team. Pretty sure there's no more than 3 Flames fans in upstate NY.

Why does that matter? AHL teams aren't supported by fans of their parent clubs, they're supported by fans of the AHL club.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes, there is a domino effect. There are 30 NHL teams, and there are 30 AHL teams. To put a new team in Utica, some other team has to go. The question is where. Such a move would also lead to a flurry of affiliation changes, as the Wolves would need a new affiliation.

I can't see too many independently owned AHL franchises wanting to jump into Abbotsford. The Canucks would have to buy an affiliate and move it there themselves, in which case whatever team they buy will lose their NHL affilations. That NHL team would likely sign a deal with the Wolves.

Out of curiousity, what are the logistics for flying from Utica to Calgary? I am assuming that there aren't daily direct flights. Do you have to drive to Syracuse, then fly to New York or Toronto, then to Calgary?

At least in Abbotsford, there are a few daily direct flights from both the Vancouver and Abbotsford airports. But then again, maybe Uitica would make up for it when the Flames are on the road in the U.S.

[PeteMoss]

For the players sake I hope this is true. Being off in a billion miles from every other team and having long flights everywhere can't be fun.

And yes.. it wouldn't be a direct flight to Calgary from Utica (your Syracuse idea is probably right).

If there is some kind of mega emergency where you needed a guy you'd have to pull a guy from junior somewhere. The odds of the team being in a situation where you need a guy in two hours from the minors seems pretty slim. Really would just come down to goalies and unless the guy gets hurt in pre-game warming or driving to the rink you should at least know the guy is dinged up enough to have someone on the way to Calgary from the game before.

I think that's just the reality of being a west coast team in a non major market.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I can't see too many independently owned AHL franchises wanting to jump into Abbotsford. The Canucks would have to buy an affiliate and move it there themselves, in which case whatever team they buy will lose their NHL affilations. That NHL team would likely sign a deal with the Wolves.

Out of curiousity, what are the logistics for flying from Utica to Calgary? I am assuming that there aren't daily direct flights. Do you have to drive to Syracuse, then fly to New York or Toronto, then to Calgary?

At least in Abbotsford, there are a few daily direct flights from both the Vancouver and Abbotsford airports. But then again, maybe Uitica would make up for it when the Flames are on the road in the U.S.

There are lots of options. Just taking a quick look at the map of upstate NY, there are lots of major cities in the area - the closest being Buffalo which is about 3 hours away. NYC is about 4 hours away, same with Boston. Montreal is about 4.5 hours away. Kingston is just under 3 hours away. There are definitely options.

[Phil Russell]

Regional airports in Syracuse and Albany--both within an hours drive of Utica. Quick connections to hubs like NYC, Toronto, Detroit and Chicago.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

That other team is The Heat. Heat leave Abby, go to Utica. Done. No domino affect.

The speculation The Divers would want an affiliate in Abby if The Heat left and would do something to get a team there is a separate issue.

Fair enough. I was arguing on the basis of Vancouver taking over Abbotsford.

[Red Menace]

Let's hope this is true.....that AHL map makes it clear that it is a huge disadvantage to be located in Abbotsford.
And this gives the team the chance to bury the awful "Heat" moniker forever.....
Utica Mohawks?
Utica Chiefs?

[Stay Golden]

What is the size of the Arena in Utica vs Abbotsford?
Are the Heat making or losing $ ?

[Northendzone]

seems to me that teams in the AHL are always moving.

[Flame19,289]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

seems to me that teams in the AHL are always moving.

Not only that, but the affiliations for a team in any given city can change from year to year.

I still think of Hershey as being the farm team for the Flyers (not the Caps) and Adirondack as being the farm team for the Red Wings (not the Flyers).

In the 20 years that I've been living in the Albany area of NY State, we have had teams with prospects from the Islanders (Capital District Islanders), Devils (Albany River Rats), Colorado and Carolina together (the Albany River Rats were affiliated with both teams for one season), just Carolina (Albany River Rats) and the Devils again (Albany Devils).

The Capital District Islanders and Albany River Rats were a locally owned team, whereas the Albany Devils are owned by the parent club in New Jersey.

It's hard to build a fan base when there is such a revolving door of players and club affiliations. I find myself personally more interested in following the local NCAA Division I hockey teams (Union and RPI).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Let's hope this is true.....that AHL map makes it clear that it is a huge disadvantage to be located in Abbotsford.
And this gives the team the chance to bury the awful "Heat" moniker forever.....
Utica Mohawks?
Utica Chiefs?

I'd be pretty shocked to see a new team, in any city, go with a native american themed name.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by valo403

Why does that matter? AHL teams aren't supported by fans of their parent clubs, they're supported by fans of the AHL club.

And how's that working out for the Heat? They're like 26th in attendance in the A with an average of 3500 fans every night. For better or worse you're connected to the big league club.

[Julio]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

What is the size of the Arena in Utica vs Abbotsford?
Are the Heat making or losing $ ?

This is where I can see some concern. The Aud in Utica holds less than 4000 people, and probably even less than that if they put in boxes. It's over 50 years old, only 9 years newer than the Corral. It is a really funky looking building, and is reminiscent of MSG in it's roof and shape:


Also, I realize that city populations can be misleading (Utica is under 70,000) but the whole county it is in only had a population of under 250,000.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

And how's that working out for the Heat? They're like 26th in attendance in the A with an average of 3500 fans every night. For better or worse you're connected to the big league club.

The team that's tops in the attendance every year in the AHL - Hershey - have switched affiliates 5 times in something like 25 years and they still manage to lap everyone in the league in attendance.

Vancouver's affiliate is in Chicago. It really doesn't matter who the parent is if the team can build a strong fan base.

AHL hockey is a tough buy in Canada. It really only seems to work in bigger cities that don't have junior teams (or Toronto). Its flopped out of a ton of different Canadian cities.

[PeteMoss]

I'd guess that Utica would be another bust of a city. If you were going to move to a Canadian market the only place I think it would work is Thunder Bay and I'm not sure of the arena situation there. Honestly there are very few AHL markets out there... most teams just float around every few years. At least Utica would lead to better travel for the players on the team.

[moon]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Lethbridge, Saskatoon, or Regina could definitely support an AHL franchise I think. I realize that all those places have dub teams but still they're all reasonably close and the fan support would be there if some people feel an attachment to the big league team. Pretty sure there's no more than 3 Flames fans in upstate NY.

Can't see the cities getting rid of the WHL and if they don't can't see anyway the AHL team survives or even outdraws the WHL in any of those cities.

In Lethbridge even if you dump the junior team I can't see the AHL working at all. Probably at best a 50/50 Flames/Other team population with a lot of students who aren't likely to be consistent attendees and a lot of old people who seem happy to support the kids in juniors but not sure if they tranafer that to low level pros.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

And how's that working out for the Heat? They're like 26th in attendance in the A with an average of 3500 fans every night. For better or worse you're connected to the big league club.

So you're telling me that Chicago is full of Canucks fans? Hershey, PA was a Caps stronghold before the affiliation changed? Tons of Avs fans in Cleveland? And, of course that long running Houston-Minnesota connection.

The presence of fans of the parent team has little, if anything, to do with the success of the AHL team in drawing fans. IF that were the case the majority of AHL markets would fail.

[t0rrent98]

How would an AHL team fair in Calgary? they could probably play in the Coral.... just a thought. It'll be like Toronto having the Marlies....

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by t0rrent98

How would an AHL team fair in Calgary? they could probably play in the Coral.... just a thought. It'll be like Toronto having the Marlies....

Lets put it this way: There is a reason why Edmonton didn't even bother trying the Road Runners against the Oilers after the 2004-05 lockout was resolved. They simply folded the team up.

Also, the Flames will never - not ever - risk decimating their own fanbase, or that of the Hitmen or Roughnecks.