Calgary developer’s caught with pants down - Nenshi white knight or not?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

At times I probably come across as being against densification (I'm not entirely). I just get tired of the holier than attitude of some of the people pressing for this, and specifically those who rent rather than own and are ideologues on this topic largely due to their current stage of life.

I also better note that I don't even mean that comment to specifically apply to CP as I've run into some of the people at various times and places. I should also note that I'm not makig the rent v. own distinction as a comment about whether people owning should mean they have greater say either; its just that renting a 500 sq. foot apartment in the beltline and saying "we can densify" as compared to someone who actually owns and pays taxes is a night and day scenario IMO.

I'm on both sides of this fence, since my 2 person family lives in a good sized single family home, and I own condos as rentals. I would never suggest basement suites everywhere or wholesale multi-family zoning in all neighbourhoods.

I do think there needs to be thoughtful densification in all areas of the city. Examples would include:

- zoning increases in "middle inner city" neighbourhoods from R1 to R2 to permit increased infills and reduce the cost of inner city buildable lots.

- Upzoning all areas walking distance to a CTrain platform. Sorry, if you're <200m from a CTrain you shouldn't be R1 zoning, you should be at minimum M-GC zoning (townhouse density) and more probably MC1/MC2. If the existing residents don't like it, they'd be free to take their huge profits from selling to developers and go elsewhere.

- Thoughtfully redeveloping existing land the city owns. Example: The Louise Riley library is a single storey building that shares a parking lot with another city building dedicated to hosting city programs/events. It's across the street from a CTrain station. I suspect the city could trade that land to a condo developer for a new highrise and get a free new library/program space on the main floor out of the deal, along with an agreement that the condo tower pays for the library utilities.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You seem to be alluding to a point here, are you going to get to it?

Just confirming - so we know who to hold accountable.

Am looking up the committee as we speak.

Thanks for caring.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Makarov

To start, there is a continent full of them on the other side of the Atlantic.

Thanks, that really narrows down my search for great city planning. Very helpful. Any specific examples? I'd be especially interested in newer developments/cities that have done things the "right way."

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

At election time I found it really hard to get a read on Nenshi. Is he arrogant, naive, both, neither?

3 years in I am still not sure. Sometimes he is pragmatic. Then he pulls a stunt like this.

If he felt the need to call out the chba so be it. But to take your toys and go home is ...weak.

No matter whether people like or not 20,000 people a year come to Calgary and they don't all want to live in 600 sq ft condos, nor do all the people who live here now. And the housing industry is a big one. Again like it or not its a fact.

It is not a conversation where only the mayor or his brain trust should have a voice.

No one has ever remotely suggested that all Calgarians must live in 600 square foot condos. This sort of hyberbolic fear mongering is totally absurd considering Calgary is probably one of the most single-family-home-dominated cities on earth.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

No matter whether people like or not 20,000 people a year come to Calgary and they don't all want to live in 600 sq ft condos, nor do all the people who live here now. And the housing industry is a big one. Again like it or not its a fact.

Who says they should? Absolutely no one. That argument about doing growth differently means everyone is a 1 bedroom condo is a red herring.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Just confirming - so we know who to hold accountable.

Am looking up the committee as we speak.

Thanks for caring.

Yes, Council members. Chaired by the Mayor.

[puckluck2]

nm

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Slava

At times I probably come across as being against densification (I'm not entirely). I just get tired of the holier than attitude of some of the people pressing for this, and specifically those who rent rather than own and are ideologues on this topic largely due to their current stage of life.

I also better note that I don't even mean that comment to specifically apply to CP as I've run into some of the people at various times and places. I should also note that I'm not makig the rent v. own distinction as a comment about whether people owning should mean they have greater say either; its just that renting a 500 sq. foot apartment in the beltline and saying "we can densify" as compared to someone who actually owns and pays taxes is a night and day scenario IMO.

If you'd conduct a modicum of research you'd find that smart growing, denser cities, focused on multiple modes of transport, prioritizing local access to amenities are infact much better cities. That's why people care about it. It isn't being ideological.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Slava

At times I probably come across as being against densification (I'm not entirely).

You can't be, you live in Bridgeland. That's pretty much Midtown Manhattan in comparison to the suburbs. Just admit it, you're one of us!

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Thanks, that really narrows down my search for great city planning. Very helpful. Any specific examples? I'd be especially interested in newer developments/cities that have done things the "right way."

Sorry, that came across as snide when I didn't intend it as such. I'm on my phone so am not really able provide examples of some of the excellent brownfield developments in Europe over the last decade. I'm certain that other posters will be able to though.

Not really necessary to even look to Europe though. Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal also have some excellent examples that Calgary can learn from.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You can't be, you live in Bridgeland. That's pretty much Midtown Manhattan in comparison to the suburbs. Just admit it, you're one of us!

Did Slava move?


Doesn't look like Nenshi will be getting his apology.

From Markusoff:

#yyc homebuilders' prez Charron Ungar said he's meeting w/ @Nenshi tomorrow. Not apologizing for "suburban development freeze" #yyccc

Now what? Gunfight at noon?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Who says they should? Absolutely no one. That argument about doing growth differently means everyone is a 1 bedroom condo is a red herring.

It's a hyperbole, but not a red herring. What does significantly increasing density mean if its not more people living in smaller places?

Bigger question: Why are people offended by the conversation?

the red herring is debating whether this is really about 600 sq ft condos instead of whether they mayor ought to take his toys and go home if someone disagrees with him.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That's a lot compared to everyone else who has posted Cory's blog zero times. That's what you're missing.

I got really bored and did a quick search. There are 53 occurrences of the site on this forum. Of those, 34 times they were initial posts by First Lady. Once was a link posted to an image he posted. The rest were hits generated by quoting First Lady's posts.

There's definitely a slant in who is initiating discussion of Cory Morgan's blog.

Originally Posted by Table 5

Anyone who thinks Calgary is turning into Hong Kong clearly has never been to Hong Kong.

I thanked this, not because I'm agreeing with the intent, but because Hong Kong has a disaster of a smog layer. Middle of the day is horrible, even when it's supposed to be a beautiful day.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Why? Renters contribute to property taxes (albeit indirectly). I don't see why renters are necessarily less-committed citizens just because they rent.

There is nowhere near the commitment that an owner has though. Its easier to be altruistic about something temporary.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It doesn't sound like you live in a condo, it sounds like you live in prison. Either get out of jail, or move out of the dump you live in.

I'm sure you can find a place where you don't have to listen to sexually-active overweight people, or deal with brown folks and their mysterious meals.

Why do you need an excuse to build a giant energy hog house? Those are allowed. What are you waiting for?

LOL, that was a bit of a Crown and Coke fueled rant... but I still think inner city living is horrible.

I live in a 30 year old building that was converted from rentals, to Condos. I would implore ANYONE who asks, NEVER buy one, as hip and cool as it seems to live in an older building in the inner city. Unless you want to take it up the tailpipe every 3 years for a $10k special assessment, ridiculous condo fees and taxes that are higher than a $2000 square foot house in the burbs. My condo fees alone could rent a crappy basement suite in Forest Lawn.

The ONLY reason I stay, is because I have a tiny mortgage left on it, and it is cheap for the time being. That and the only thing I hate more than my neighbors... is moving. I suppose I am waiting for that back breaking straw to hit, that just makes me say screw it, and go build my impenetrable dream fortress. But condo life sucks. And the only option that doesn't creep near a million dollars for a large, decent, energy efficient, modern home home, is to move to the suburbs.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Makarov

No one has ever remotely suggested that all Calgarians must live in 600 square foot condos. This sort of hyberbolic fear mongering is totally absurd considering Calgary is probably one of the most single-family-home-dominated cities on earth.

Speaking of hyperbole...

If everyone wanted a 600 sq ft condo it would make this conversation easy. But they don't. And clearly no one will force that extreme. Nor was I suggesting it.

But what will be forced? What kinds of places will people be allowed to live in, either because its all that is available or all that is affordable? Who gets to choose?

I guarantee you city planners 50, 40, 20, and 10 years ago thought they were geniuses too. So forgive my reluctance to put all my faith in that basket.

[DFO]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

It's a hyperbole, but not a red herring. What does significantly increasing density mean if its not more people living in smaller places?

I thought increased density was more of pushing redevelopment of 50' lots to 2 25' infills or an attached duplex. Don't think there is a big decrease in square footage when compared to some of the single family starter home developments in the burbs.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

It's a hyperbole, but not a red herring. What does significantly increasing density mean if its not more people living in smaller places?

I think it could also mean building homes closer to one another. I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of homes per acre from the 80's, 90's etc.... because I'm sure densification is happening that way already.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Slava

There is nowhere near the commitment that an owner has though. Its easier to be altruistic about something temporary.

Maybe, but I'm not being altruistic when I advocate for higher density development. I'm being selfish; I'm advocating for higher density because that is the type of city that I want to live in.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You can't be, you live in Bridgeland. That's pretty much Midtown Manhattan in comparison to the suburbs. Just admit it, you're one of us!

No, just my office is in Bridgeland. At this point I'm in the deep south.

Originally Posted by First Lady

Did Slava move?

I haven't moved...yet. I've come awfully close to moving to the inner city. Once I do everyone outside the current Car2Go zone is dead to me!