Toronto Raptors 2012/2013 season

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by kmart

I don't think you're getting Pau for Bargnani+. Bargnani would just be in Kobe's whipping boat all day. Theres a reason why the offers are for players like Boozer, Gordon, and Spencer Hawes.

Pau is too good to be traded for Bargs straight up and hardly Bargs +.

Pau is too good but he is also old, has a big contract, does not fit in with Dantoni and most of all his knees are gonzo. Not that Bargs has been the picture of health either but the trade could happen and be based more on other circumstances than talent.

[bluejays]

I can't believe anyone would amnesty a player like Bargnani. He definitely has trade value, and as I've said before, the NBA is loaded with GM's looking for reclaimation projects. Bargnani is that classic player who's not injury prone, has a very managable contract for the points he has traditionally put up, and if he's put in a position off the bench with the right coach, he'll definitely be a 20 point player again. Save the amnesty for a player like Fields in a year if he doesn't improve. A potential 20 PPG player with a $10M contract is not unmovable. No disrespect, but some of you guys are nuts. He's an asset to be traded and get considerable value for. I'm going to guess he's packaged with DeRozan in the offseason for a player who's been more of a headcase that also needs a change of scenery.

[The Big Chill]

Big win! That was a fun one to watch.

[Trojan97]

Just bumping from a previous post...

Their next 10 are:
@Washington (W), Memphis (L), NYK (W), Washington (L), @Cleveland, Indiana, @Milwaukee, @Golden State, @Phoenix, @LA Lakers

The Raps NEED a 7-3 stretch here. Tonight was unbelievably big. With the next two being so winnable, they would put themselves in a position of only needing to go 3-2 against Indiana, Milwaukee, G-State, Phoenix & LA.

The Bucks play @Brooklyn (L), Brooklyn (L), Atlanta (L), @Dallas (W), @Houston, Toronto, Utah, @LA Clips, @ G-State, @ Sacramento

Atlanta @ Milwaukee is a big out of towner tomorrow.

PS- Just edited to add, I realize it's still a longshot but MAN am I loving this team right now. Amir in particular, the guy has so much heart it is ridiculous. Can't say enough about this guy. Just a warrior.

[bluejays]

It's a great dynamic they're all having pushing for eachother to win. And it looks like they're really enjoying their wins. I'm liking the team right now as well. We all know the deficiencies this team has, but watching them play hard and get rewarded with a finish is a really refreshing thing to see. Colangelo will take care of the off-season, now it's just time to sit back and enjoy the enthusiasm of a collage team.

[Da_Chief]

Great game!
JV is coming into his own as well. I really like Amir Johnson but I would love to see him come off the bench.

I think they need a true inside scorer that would really open the game for them in a big way. Something BC needs to grab this off-season. Millsap would be perfect imo, he's a UFA, not sure if they can fit him under the cap (maybe after dumping Andrea and Fields?) but it'll be perfect.

Lowry/Telfair
DeRozen/Ross
Gay/Anderson
Millsap/Amir
JV/Amir/Acy

Depth and starting lineup that should get you playoffs.

[bluejays]

I agree that Millsap makes you better inside, but who plays C in that rotation? Millsap's undersized in height to play C, and Valanciunas has a bigger upside at PF than C. Both guys are ideally PF's. From here, I'd actually go European and sign Pekovic. He's mobile enough and is pretty much the new Bogut. 16PPG, 9 RPG. He's the type of European we should have. It would be nice if we could get Chris Kaman as a backup as well, but that would probably cost too much.

[Da_Chief]

I dont think the Wolves are going to let go of Pekovic wheres Millsap is a UFA and they have Kanter and Favors waiting in the wings.

JV has been starting at C and holding his own, improving I'd say. Another thing to add is most C aren't your traditional centers anyways.

They're on a right track though. If only Andrea could start playing like a man.

[killer_carlson]

I hate that so many fourth quarter plays have ZERO players inside the three point line.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by fleury

I can't believe anyone would amnesty a player like Bargnani. He definitely has trade value, and as I've said before, the NBA is loaded with GM's looking for reclaimation projects. Bargnani is that classic player who's not injury prone, has a very managable contract for the points he has traditionally put up, and if he's put in a position off the bench with the right coach, he'll definitely be a 20 point player again. Save the amnesty for a player like Fields in a year if he doesn't improve. A potential 20 PPG player with a $10M contract is not unmovable. No disrespect, but some of you guys are nuts. He's an asset to be traded and get considerable value for. I'm going to guess he's packaged with DeRozan in the offseason for a player who's been more of a headcase that also needs a change of scenery.

Reclamation projects are highly valued, but you're not going to want a reclamation project at high price. Thats why guys like Boozer and Gordon were offered. Boozer is another crappy paid PF (but a lot better) and Gordon flat out sucks, so I don't think the Raps want either.

Bargs was a 20 point a game player at one point, but he's for sure not a first option and I don't know if he's a second option with his low shooting percentages. He literally contributes less than Lowry in terms of rebounds (2 rebounds in the last 2 games). On a good team I doubt he'll even average 12 points. Off the bench he's lost all his confidence and bench players rarely average 20, hardly even 15.

So now we're talking about a big man with low shooting percentages and no rebounding skills. Very little value IMO.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Pau is too good but he is also old, has a big contract, does not fit in with Dantoni and most of all his knees are gonzo. Not that Bargs has been the picture of health either but the trade could happen and be based more on other circumstances than talent.

Very true, but the Lakers can take the contract. You can suff any PF that shoot 3's in his system and they'll have success IMO. Ie Earl Clark and sometimes Antawn Jamison, so I just don't see Bargs being Kobes whipping boy.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I hate that so many fourth quarter plays have ZERO players inside the three point line.

Agreed, I think Amir Johnson misses Jose.

I guess the NBA is more perimeter orientated now though. Its nice to see wins coming from the Raps!

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by kmart

Very true, but the Lakers can take the contract. You can suff any PF that shoot 3's in his system and they'll have success IMO. Ie Earl Clark and sometimes Antawn Jamison, so I just don't see Bargs being Kobes whipping boy.

Yeah, and think about how D'Antoni developed Channing Frye from a utility center into a floor-spacing 3-point specialist who fit perfectly alongside Nash. If you're bringing in Bargnani with the expectation of him being Channing Frye 2.0, then I think that's realistic. Given that Howard's greatest seasons were either with Ryan Anderson, or when Rashard Lewis was a decent 3-point threat, and I think it's easy to make the case that this is the sort of player he needs, and he can make up for a less effective rebounder and help-defender.

I think the other factor is that there are just so many free agent big-men, most of whom are going to move in sign-and-trades. And LA, being over the tax apron, will not have that option. So most teams that normally would be interested in Gasol are going to be after guys like Jefferson, Millsap, Smith, Pekovic, West, Hickson, Kaman, etc. All of whom are healthy. If Howard puts pressure on the Lakers to move Gasol before he re-signs, they could be in a very difficult spot to make a move before the marketplace is settled. (Not that Howard would do that, right? He's not the sort of guy to give ultimatums to a GM, right?)
I don't think Toronto is the only option for LA though. I imagine that Minnesota will put a package together based around Derrick Williams, Brandon Roy, and either Barea or Ridnour (Pekovic can no longer be sent because LA can't negotiate sign-and-trades). Chicago might pitch Boozer for Gasol, and Boozer is probably the most skilled guy they could get, but he's still overpaid and doesn't space the floor. Maybe the Nets make an offer based around Humphries. There are other options, but that's probably about the general quality of offers they're going to get, either directly or in multi-team trades. Contenders won't want Gasol because he isn't healthy enough to contribute reliably. Bottom-feeders won't want to give up assets for him because he probably bolts in a year. Rebuilding teams looking to unload their own baggage are pretty-much the only willing trade partners.

[secol]

Originally Posted by kmart

Agreed, for a back up he isn't bad at all. I think he's a better option that JL3.

gotta disagree. if you thought lucas shot bad at the beginning of the season that is around the same as telfair's typical FG% around 30%

[killer_carlson]

Ooooooooooooooooooooh

What a terribly played basketball game by both teams.

The raptors ball hogs have to pass the ball into the post without driving into the lane to do so. It is embarassing.

Bargniani gets run at posession after posession by washington in the fourth - and washington scoring each time. So obvious no respect by washington or the raptors

Gay, anderson, lowry Had more combined turnovers than field goals (9 to, 7-32 shooting). And then anderson would bitch and complain every posession they screwed up. Jonas with good d, hustles up the floor, great position low and calls for the ball ..... only to get waived out by a guard. I dont know why he doesnt beat a couple up at practice, unless Casey is telling them to run it like that.

So bad tonight

[bluejays]

Yeah, I seen the same thing you seen. Two things I can't stand this year that I've been noticing are the bitching and finger pointing of Anderson and Lowry. I really dislike the NBA reffing, but both guys wait to see if the shot goes in before yelling, and if they don't get the call, or their teammate screws up, from early on it's a terribly negative attitude they personify. Casey seems to be a good people coach, but I sometimes wish he benches them when they get to the point of panicking the team with their sore faces. Gay took tonight off, plain and simple. Bargnani has no confidence whatsoever, and he just needs to shrug it off and play like a man. Jonas is the man.

[Trojan97]

I agree with previous posts. Jonas is criminally underused on the offensive end. He has great feet and is tremendously coordinated. He needs to see the ball! He has shown time and time again he has the ability to put the ball on the floor and score, he needs to be rewarded for all his hard work in the post.

[killer_carlson]

That is a coaching issue. The coach has to look the guys in the eye and tell them to pass the ball - especially when you are ice cold like that.

And after they show it is a feasible play, it will open more space for them anyways.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

That is a coaching issue. The coach has to look the guys in the eye and tell them to pass the ball - especially when you are ice cold like that.

And after they show it is a feasible play, it will open more space for them anyways.

The coach has been telling them NOT to pass the ball. Casey is, to be nice, an idiot when it comes to offense. He is completely clueless on a number of fronts. He is an assistant coach brought in by BC because the guy can't handle a coach who actually knows his craft.

His only offense is give the ball to player A,B, or C and have them go ISO. That is it.

Which is why you see one player with the ball and four standing still over and over and over.

His coaching has cost them numerous games this season. Not to mention the lack of development for young players. The coddling of AB and the stupidity of his AB come hell or high water comment.

He is a goof. Hoping for him to figure out an offense is a pipe dream.

[moon]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

That is a coaching issue. The coach has to look the guys in the eye and tell them to pass the ball - especially when you are ice cold like that.

And after they show it is a feasible play, it will open more space for them anyways.

I doubt the selfish dopes on this team would listen to Phil Jackson let alone Casey when it comes to passing the ball and not chucking up selfish shots for their own stats.

Blaming the coach takes way too much blame off the garbage players who make the terrible decisions during the game.