02-21-2013, 12:47 PM
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#201
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_carlson
Well sleanne and alfredsson are in the 4.5 to 5 range, which i think is fair.
Doan is over 5, which i think is high.
3 million,you are dreaming.
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Alfredson and Selanne are borderline retired and are outproducing Iginla.
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02-21-2013, 12:52 PM
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#202
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
Alfredson and Selanne are borderline retired and are outproducing Iginla.
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They also have centres to play with. Again, it seems a lot of fans want to blame Iginla for the failures of the organization.
__________________
A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
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02-21-2013, 12:57 PM
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#203
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igottago
They also have centres to play with. Again, it seems a lot of fans want to blame Iginla for the failures of the organization.
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They are more than 5 years older than Iginla and produced what he did last year, WITH a centre.
If Iginla was playing like Selanne the last 3 years, do you think people would want him dealt?
No.
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02-21-2013, 01:00 PM
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#204
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igottago
The problem is, he still is arguably the top player. In order to make Iginla dispensible as a player and a leader, someone else has to step up. Who on the team is ready to do that? Somebody should have been able to do that even with Iginla on the team. He was still our leading producer last season.
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Nobody is going to stand up in Iginla's locker room. The last player that stepped up wanting to be a leader got shipped to Toronto to be their captain. Really there is no way any other player could step up to be the leader without stepping on Iginla's toes. That's why he needs to leave so the Flames can find out what they really have in their locker room.
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02-21-2013, 01:00 PM
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#205
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AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
They are more than 5 years older than Iginla and produced what he did last year, WITH a centre.
If Iginla was playing like Selanne the last 3 years, do you think people would want him dealt?
No.
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I really don't see too much difference in their respective games. Production's been similar.
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02-21-2013, 01:22 PM
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#206
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
The last player that stepped up wanting to be a leader got shipped to Toronto to be their captain.
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With or without Iginla Phaneaf was never going to be a real leader here... people didn't like him (In so far as we know none of them named Iginla). Leaders need people to want to willing follow them, you can't just slap a "C" on a jersey and expect leadership.
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02-21-2013, 01:44 PM
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#207
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n00b!
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The whole Iginla debate is interesting to say the least.
1. Trade Value
- At this stage, do people really anticipate an enormous return for him? He's still a good player, but has infinitely higher value to the Flames on the Flames, than any other team in the NHL. You could move him out for a mid-first and maybe a roster player/mid-tier prospect, but is it really worth it? You don't know what you don't know, but an example return could be a pick in the range of a Chuck Kobasew player (10-15 overall) + a 2nd liner type guy like a Mason Raymond or similar.
Is that really worth it? I think at the right contract, you're better keeping Iginla around to retirement from an optics point of view, since the return doesn't really improve your team either. I admit his level of play is slowing down, but that's to be expected as he ages, so other factors have to come to play when you're thinking through whether or not to retain him.
2. New Contract
- If the Flames can re-sign him at a reasonable rate, again, when you balance his potential return and his status throughout his career in Calgary, it is worth it in my eyes. You can't just say however, that he should take $2M and be done with it. He shouldn't be getting less than a player like Glencross for example at least for the next 2 years. Decrease the annual salary gradually and I think that'd be okay.
3. Iginla Rumours
- Based on his reputation and what you see in his various interactions with people, I find it extremely hard to believe that he's demanding anything behind the scenes to ownership regarding players they bring in and players they "can't" bring in. Goes against all evidence and how he's carried himself ever since he became available to the media from his junior days. Maybe people just need to turn him into a villain so they can reason out to themselves why Iginla needs to go.
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02-21-2013, 02:09 PM
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#208
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallex
But the answer to that question is "probably not".
I don't know what you think the trade value of a goalslumping twilight years Iginla with no years left on his contract is but I'm pretty sure that in terms of future assets it's probably a coin toss to make the NHL as depth player and a lottery ticket to make it as an impact player.
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Iginla would have way more value than that because teams bringing him in aren't going to ask him to play with B grade talent and to be the main (sometimes only) source of offense for the team.
Put Iginla on a team like LA, Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston and he isn't a goalslumping twilight years Iginla but a great scoring winger that finishes chance created by players like Giroux, Crosby, Richards and Seguin. His value to a team that doesn't expect him to get the puck, create the scoring chance, score, fight, hit, lead, pass, kiss babies, play defense, coach the team etc. would be much better than it is here.
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02-21-2013, 02:27 PM
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#209
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Iginla would have way more value than that because teams bringing him in aren't going to ask him to play with B grade talent and to be the main (sometimes only) source of offense for the team.
Put Iginla on a team like LA, Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston and he isn't a goalslumping twilight years Iginla but a great scoring winger that finishes chance created by players like Giroux, Crosby, Richards and Seguin. His value to a team that doesn't expect him to get the puck, create the scoring chance, score, fight, hit, lead, pass, kiss babies, play defense, coach the team etc. would be much better than it is here.
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This, exactly.
I am not sure why people have a tough time with this concept - to a contender, Iginla isn't worth what he is doing for the Flames, he is worth what he would add to that team.
And Iginla, on a cup contender, used properly with good talent, and thus motivated, would still be an extremely valuable and useful asset. The good Iginla is a playoff monster.
GMs that might be considering adding him to their team don't care that he is in a slump and the Flames are playing poorly, they care what he would look like on their roster.
Last edited by Enoch Root; 02-21-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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02-21-2013, 02:59 PM
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#210
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Iginla would have way more value than that
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You think? I don't, I think the most a team will offer would be a late 1st Round pick (20-30 range most likely), a third line forward (to open the spot on the 25man), and a middling prospect.
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02-21-2013, 03:05 PM
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#211
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallex
You think? I don't, I think the most a team will offer would be a late 1st Round pick (20-30 range most likely), a third line forward (to open the spot on the 25man), and a middling prospect.
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Listening to what media members are saying, looking at past deals for similar guys and watching Iginla play for the past two seasons and I certainly think that he could be more valuable than that for sure.
I think GM's in the NHL usually look at a guy much more objectively than fans so they aren't going to look at Iginla as a slumping goalscorer and look at what he actually is and what he would bring to a top team.
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02-21-2013, 03:13 PM
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#212
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Lifetime Suspension
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The idea that Iginla would not have value is kind of crazy.
Olli Jokinen, a thirty goal scorer at the time and a 3rd round pick was good enough to snag Phoenix a 1st rounder, Brandon Prust who was a servicable 3rd or 4th liner at the time and a young 2nd line center who was 27 at the time who had had one 46 point season and was on pace for close to a 50 point season at the time of the trade. I would suspect that a similar package would be available for Iginla.
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02-21-2013, 03:17 PM
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#213
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Listening to what media members are saying, looking at past deals for similar guys and watching Iginla play for the past two seasons and I certainly think that he could be more valuable than that for sure.
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Eh? What are media members saying? I haven't heard much spec on what Iginla could net in return for a while. What past deals for similar guys?
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02-21-2013, 03:19 PM
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#214
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallex
Eh? What are media members saying? I haven't heard much spec on what Iginla could net in return for a while. What past deals for similar guys?
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Media members are saying that Iginla is at or near the top of list for guys that the top teams want. Might all be lies but doubtful considering the respect he has around the league and his ability.
Past deals for UFA's like Hossa and Kaberle are the two that immediately come to mind.
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02-21-2013, 03:25 PM
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#215
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Franchise Player
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Iginla's closer to Kaberle in value than Hossa. Hossa was 29 and one of the best two-way players in the game. Iginla will be brought in to supply secondary scoring.
However, I do think he will bring more to the team he goes to than he has to the Flames in recent years, if only because he'll have something to prove, and will play like he did in the Dallas game. For a few weeks anyway (which is all the team picking him up will need).
Edit: Also, the Kaberle deal is widely regarded as overpayment. It's risky to assume another GM is going to make a bad deal for Iginla. It may happen. But don't bank on it.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 02-21-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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02-21-2013, 03:25 PM
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#216
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddyBeers
Olli Jokinen, a thirty goal scorer at the time and a 3rd round pick was good enough to snag Phoenix a 1st rounder, Brandon Prust who was a servicable 3rd or 4th liner at the time and a young 2nd line center who was 27 at the time who had had one 46 point season and was on pace for close to a 50 point season at the time of the trade. I would suspect that a similar package would be available for Iginla.
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Jokinen was about 5 years younger the Iginla is now and had another year on his deal (Iginla doesn't) and most people would say that in retrospect that deal ended up being a mistake... I don't think we can count on another team making a mistake. Even if Joker is comparable you can fast forward a year and a slumping Olli Jokinen in his contract year returned Ales "Moneypit" Kotalik and Chris "snakebit and soon to be a free agent" Higgins. I'm not saying that would be the return for Iggy (it'd be better then that) but the second Jokinen trade is closer to Iggy's circumstances (slumping and contract year) then the first Jokinen trade.
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02-21-2013, 03:28 PM
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#217
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Iginla's closer to Kaberle in value than Hossa. Hossa was 29 and one of the best two-way players in the game. Iginla will be brought in to supply secondary scoring.
However, I do think he will bring more to the team he goes to than he has to the Flames in recent years, if only because he'll have something to prove, and will play like he did in the Dallas game. For a few weeks anyway (which is all the team picking him up will need).
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Considering they were both FA's I don't think the age plays that big a part in the value of each. Iginla also has a lot better intangibles than Hossa did and much bigger big game history.
In terms of secondary scoring I don't think he would be expected to be the top scorer on the team but he would be expected to be more than a secondary scorer and likely be first line PP, first choice end of game down 1 and playing top 3/4 minutes for forwards on a team.
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02-21-2013, 03:31 PM
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#218
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Media members are saying that Iginla is at or near the top of list for guys that the top teams want.
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Links? I'd like to read what they're saying. Preesh. In the meantime have they said what people would be willing to give up for him?
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02-21-2013, 03:35 PM
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#219
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parallex
Links? I'd like to read what they're saying. Preesh. In the meantime have they said what people would be willing to give up for him?
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I will take a look to find the links.
I know Elliot Friedman and Bob Mackenzie have mentioned it on radio/Tv and I think Garrioch had it in his column a couple of weeks back.
Can't remember specific packages coming back just that Elliot said there would be a lot of serious interest and teams would be willing to make a significant package for Iginla that they wouldn't be giving up for other types of guys available.
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02-21-2013, 03:40 PM
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#220
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon
Considering they were both FA's I don't think the age plays that big a part in the value of each. Iginla also has a lot better intangibles than Hossa did and much bigger big game history.
In terms of secondary scoring I don't think he would be expected to be the top scorer on the team but he would be expected to be more than a secondary scorer and likely be first line PP, first choice end of game down 1 and playing top 3/4 minutes for forwards on a team.
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No team looking to acquire Iginla for a deep playoff push is going to play him top 4 forward minutes unless they are almost exclusively heavy PP minutes.
Not that he couldn't do it if asked, but contending teams have better players for their top lines.
Look at Boston as an example. Iginla is not going to displace Horton, Lucic, seguin and probably not Marchand.
In New York, he won't replace Gaborik and likely not Ryan Callahan.
In St.Louis he won't replace Backes on the top line but would likely displace someone playing out of position on the 2nd.
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