Rating the Management teams --- Value for $$$

[PeteMoss]

Sutter the GM was horrible outside of the Kipper deal.

The team he left was among the oldest in the league, spending to the cap, no prospect pool to speak of and not a playoff team.

Say what you want about Feaster and company but at least they are drafting players with talent instead of non-stop grinders.

[Tinordi]

Yeah Sutter was terrible. The best way to evaluate a GM is to look at success on his tenure and how well setup he left the franchise after he left.

On both accounts Sutter failed. Caught lightning in a bottle with kiprusoff then fumbled around for another six years as the team got progressively worse. All the while actually eroding the team's future to boot.

We all loved the 2004 run but looking at the portfolio the team was an unmitigated failure under his tenure.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Yeah Sutter was terrible. The best way to evaluate a GM is to look at success on his tenure and how well setup he left the franchise after he left.

On both accounts Sutter failed. Caught lightning in a bottle with kiprusoff then fumbled around for another six years as the team got progressively worse. All the while actually eroding the team's future to boot.

We all loved the 2004 run but looking at the portfolio the team was an unmitigated failure under his tenure.

Feaster took over as GM Dec 28,2010 that is just over 2 full years...

The players on the Flames roster that are playing under contracts signed with Sutter as GM are:

Bouwmeester, Kipper, Glencross, Stajan .... Gio signed with Sutter with Feaster as assistant GM.



This is Feaster's team.....


He has taken the Flames in a totally different direction....

He has been given basically the most he is allowed to spend .

The team is not getting results..... This year.... a real Feaster year the Flames are spending $ 868,000 per standing point.

Anything above $700,000 per standing point should be looking at getting fired.

With the cap going down next year $600k.

Feaster has not positioned the Flames to take advantage of the cheaper talent that will be available due to the drop in the cap.

The Flames will be forced to drop salary than get bargain basement salary dumps.


He is in a bad spot as far as reducing costs as even with Bouwmeester playing like a 5M D-man in a 70M cap league it will be hard to unload him and anyone having a signed contract for 2013-14. Other teams will not have room for the Flames good players making great $$.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by neo45

I like Feaster's management style more. He is more cautious with his moves and has effectively rebuilt the Flames front office. If he had Darryl's eye for talent he would be a heck of a GM...

If you take away the time Darryl traded Phaneuf and when all hell broke loose, Darryl was actually pretty cautious with his moves (except for coaching hires and firings) IMO, perhapseven more so than Feaster. As for rebuilding the front office, let's not forget that it was Darryl that hired Feaster. To be fair, I don't think you can sing Feaster's praises for hiring guys likes Weisbrod without singing Darryl's praises for hiring Feaster.

[Phanuthier]

IMO Iginla, Gio weren't the bad contracts. The bad contracts are guys who are No 5-8 defenseman ... Babchuk $2.5M and Sarich at $2M both sitting tonight? $4.5M in defenseman just as regular healthy scratches is a big time waste.

The other killer is Cammalleri at $7M ($6M cap hit)... if he were performing on par with his skill, I can understand him being a little overpaid. Right now he's performing at half his salary worth, or worse.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

IMO Iginla, Gio weren't the bad contracts. The bad contracts are guys who are No 5-8 defenseman ... Babchuk $2.5M and Sarich at $2M both sitting tonight? $4.5M in defenseman just as regular healthy scratches is a big time waste.

The other killer is Cammalleri at $7M ($6M cap hit)... if he were performing on par with his skill, I can understand him being a little overpaid. Right now he's performing at half his salary worth, or worse.

Remember also, Feaster has stated he wanted longer deals for both Comeau and Babchuk, and that Sarich, even though he's a healthy scratch, has a no-trade clause.

[LittleVoodoo]

I think it is fair to say that a lot of where the Flames are at today can be laid at Darryl's feet, however, I think the issues is much deeper and can go all the way to ownership. The owners don't care, they don't have the passion for the team anymore. I'm afraid with any organization if problems are on going then you can trace them right to the top.
My biggest fear is that the Flames are turning into the Leafs, the ownership makes money hand over fist even with the team continuing to not play well.

[Badgers Nose]

What is distressing to me is the fact that 10 years ago I used to always think that teams like Detroit and New York were better than the Flames due to their ability to spend as much as they wanted. But in fact on an equal playing field they still kick our ass. Basically the Calgary Flames are not any good at getting good value for their dollars spent.

I think this dates back to the old days when Calgary had to spend more than market value just to convince players to come or stay here. Roman Turek's contract stands out in my memory is an example of that.

Despite all of the smoke and mirrors about Calgary being an awesome team to play for, I think that the reality is players will only come here if they are incented by receiving more than market value for their services.

I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the city. I think it has more to do with the fact that players look at this team's predicament as a bit of a cluster f##k or a jackpot that they don't want to be part of.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by LittleVoodoo

I think it is fair to say that a lot of where the Flames are at today can be laid at Darryl's feet, however, I think the issues is much deeper and can go all the way to ownership. The owners don't care, they don't have the passion for the team anymore. I'm afraid with any organization if problems are on going then you can trace them right to the top.
My biggest fear is that the Flames are turning into the Leafs, the ownership makes money hand over fist even with the team continuing to not play well.

Exactly! The issues with this team date back 20 years. It has nothing to do with Darryl Sutter's mismanagement. Blaming Darryl is like taking a micro view of a macro problem.

Maybe it's too many cooks in the kitchen or maybe the ownership despite being captains of industry have low expectations for their hobby business the Calgary Flames.

Either way I think the ownership needs to step back appoint a CEO that is 100% independent and value driven to change this organization. They don't need a mouthpiece like Ken King - bless his heart I love the guy but it's obvious that he doesn't call the shots entirely by himself.

And then they should do what most stakeholders of a corporation do; measure the results and rate the CEOs performance based on how profitable the company is and how well it performs. A good Board of Directors knows that even if the company is profitable if it is not performing well in the market it's only a matter of time before those profits disappear.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

What is distressing to me is the fact that 10 years ago I used to always think that teams like Detroit and New York were better than the Flames due to their ability to spend as much as they wanted. But in fact on an equal playing field they still kick our ass. Basically the Calgary Flames are not any good at getting good value for their dollars spent.

I think this dates back to the old days when Calgary had to spend more than market value just to convince players to come or stay here. Roman Turek's contract stands out in my memory is an example of that.

Despite all of the smoke and mirrors about Calgary being an awesome team to play for, I think that the reality is players will only come here if they are incented by receiving more than market value for their services.

I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the city. I think it has more to do with the fact that players look at this team's predicament as a bit of a cluster f##k or a jackpot that they don't want to be part of.

I completely agree with what your assertation, but I believe that's more of a last few years problem. I actually think post lock out, with Iginla and Kipper in their prime and us fresh off a cup run, Calgary was likely a very appealing market. Unfortunately we did nothing with that Halo and very quickly changed the perception to what you described above.

[North East Goon]

I suggest Brian Burke as President of hockey operations.

[Fischy13]

I think one of the Flames' best moves, and you can see it in the drafting already, Michel Goulet. I believe he has a nose for the talent and probably contributed a lot in finding the ROR, Stasney's of Colorado. I think the next overhaul should be our development team. Maybe the drafting wouldn't be so bad if we didn't keep trying to turn our prospects into 4th liners.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

I think one of the Flames' best moves, and you can see it in the drafting already, Michel Goulet. I believe he has a nose for the talent and probably contributed a lot in finding the ROR, Stasney's of Colorado. I think the next overhaul should be our development team. Maybe the drafting wouldn't be so bad if we didn't keep trying to turn our prospects into 4th liners.

Goulet is head of pro scouting, so I am not sure how much work he does in evaluating prospects. My guess would be Todd Button is the main guy to thank (if the prospects pan out) for the last couple of drafts.

It is still too early to judge, but both drafts appear to be solid.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by neo45

Goulet is head of pro scouting, so I am not sure how much work he does in evaluating prospects. My guess would be Todd Button is the main guy to thank (if the prospects pan out) for the last couple of drafts.

It is still too early to judge, but both drafts appear to be solid.

Yeah, Feaster isn't the guy scouting, its Todd Button. Same Todd Button who was under Darryl, under Craig Button, I think under Al Coates. Really odd to credit Feaster and say Darryl was a bad drafter since almost all decisions are made by Todd Button & Co, and its been the same across the board.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by LittleVoodoo

I think it is fair to say that a lot of where the Flames are at today can be laid at Darryl's feet, however, I think the issues is much deeper and can go all the way to ownership. The owners don't care, they don't have the passion for the team anymore. I'm afraid with any organization if problems are on going then you can trace them right to the top.
My biggest fear is that the Flames are turning into the Leafs, the ownership makes money hand over fist even with the team continuing to not play well.

I disagree, I don't think the owners don't care, I think they care to much, the Flames have all the hallmarks of a team with a way too involved ownership who don't allow their employees to do their job.
I think this shows itself in the stasis that is the Falmes, cant trade Iggy can't fire Todd Button, can't really do anything of significance.
It is also a management style that tends to encourage sycophancy in the employees so you end up getting a manager that tells you what you want to hear not what you need to hear. It may also be a function of group ownership to some degree.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I disagree, I don't think the owners don't care, I think they care to much, the Flames have all the hallmarks of a team with a way too involved ownership who don't allow their employees to do their job.
I think this shows itself in the stasis that is the Falmes, cant trade Iggy can't fire Todd Button, can't really do anything of significance.
It is also a management style that tends to encourage sycophancy in the employees so you end up getting a manager that tells you what you want to hear not what you need to hear. It may also be a function of group ownership to some degree.

You could put it like that. Or you could say management is simply incompetent, "caring too much" is about the lamest excuse for doing poorly at your job that exists.

[Five-hole]

Want to see something depressing?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

Warning: not for the faint of heart.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by zamler

You could put it like that. Or you could say management is simply incompetent, "caring too much" is about the lamest excuse for doing poorly at your job that exists.

Its not the owners job though, its their hobby.

[zamler]

That makes me feel so much better.

[Igottago]

Drafting has been an organizational weakness for decades now, and that's no exaggeration. I could be blinded folded and throw darts at a darboard to make draft picks and I'd probably have more success than the Flames have had. Not sure why its been so consistently bad through different management teams but its just never hit the mark.