[News] Flames re-assign Irving, recall Taylor

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

?

Ramo, Brossoit, Ortio, Gillies. They are in the system.

Irving has no value, and hasn't had any value for a while. We aren't going to get anything for him.

If this is Kipper's last year (but I don't understand why everyone is so certain since he hasn't even alluded to it). Nonetheless, I'm hoping Ramo can be decent enough to keep the team competitive until Gillies, or to a lesser extent Brossoit is ready to takeover. Or you know, we kidnap Kipper and clone him.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

What makes this a gong show is not that they sent Irving down, its that Kipper is 36 and yet the team has no idea or would appear to have even thought about a plan for his retiring.

This can't be understated.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sakari

Nobody will EVER replace Miikka Kiprusoff in this organization, not EVER. People seem to forget that not only is Miikka Kiprusoff an elite goaltender at 36, he's been an elite goaltender since he started playing with this club, and has been a fantastic goalie since then. He's a sure-fire hall of famer and if you expect anyone to replace him, now or EVER, you need a reality check. When he's back, I see his play elevating to an above average level, like it does every season. For now, we have to make the best of the goaltenders we have, and if that means two AHL quality goaltenders for a week and a half, then that's what we have to deal with. Bitching about our future isn't going to help us now, especially when we have the likes of Ramo, Brossoit, Irving, Taylor, Brust, Ortio, in our prospect pool. We have a huge selection of goalies that still have a year or two to develop before we have to worry about getting someone to take Kipper's place. People seem to think that the goaltending situation we have NOW, will be the same in TWO YEARS. It's ridiculous, really.

I don't see anybody other than Irving who can step in in 2 years and thats assuming you have 2 years which is far from certain.

[Red]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Desperatly throwing in anything they can scare up because Irving hasn't worked out isn't what I would call evaluation, if Kipper was 32 not really worrying whether Irving was NHL calibre wouldn't matter but a team with a 36 year old goalie should have his replacement locked and loaded, either with a decent older back up or an NHL ready prospect

so how would you handle this?

With details.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

?

Ramo, Brossoit, Ortio, Gillies. They are in the system.

Irving has no value, and hasn't had any value for a while. We aren't going to get anything for him.

I see we're back to the ol'type out a list of prospect names argument.

Only one goalie is a remotely plausible starter/backup on that list over the next 2/3 years. And even then Ramo comes with alot of questions, namely whether he'll even play at all. After that you have incredibly green goaltending prospects.

4 years ago that would have been the same to say, we have a replacement for kipper, his name is Leland Irving, dude's a sick goaltending prospect.

Bottom line, that's weak. We have no NHL goaltending depth now or in the near future.

Guess we'll sign Theodore or Elliot next season or trade for someone like Enroth.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Red

so how would you handle this?

With details.

Well about 5 years ago I would have told Kipper that he wasn't going to be getting 73 odd starts a season and being utterly relied on with no thought or cap space given to a reasonable back up to take the load, ideally this would have forced the organization to think about both back up and replacemnet about 2 years ago.

The sad thing is goalies arn't that hard to find these days but you do actually have to think finding someone that can start 20 or 25 games a season is important

[opendoor]

Honestly, decent goalies aren't that hard to acquire once Kiprusoff retires. Goaltenders are getting better and better as time goes on and to me there's an oversupply of them. Guys of the Vokoun, Theodore, Anderson, etc. ilk can be had for a song and are fine as stopgap solutions.

But you do need to put the goalie in a position to succeed and "uptempo" hockey without the 2-way players to support that style is normally a recipe for disaster in terms of GA. Even Kiprusoff hasn't been able to succeed under that system so expecting an average goalie to do so is a bit much.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I see we're back to the ol'type out a list of prospect names argument.

Only one goalie is a remotely plausible starter/backup on that list over the next 2/3 years. And even then Ramo comes with alot of questions, namely whether he'll even play at all. After that you have incredibly green goaltending prospects.

4 years ago that would have been the same to say, we have a replacement for kipper, his name is Leland Irving, dude's a sick goaltending prospect.

Bottom line, that's weak. We have no NHL goaltending depth now or in the near future.

Guess we'll sign Theodore or Elliot next season or trade for someone like Enroth.

What else do you want, what else could a succession plan be other than a list of possible names?

[Red]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well about 5 years ago I would have told Kipper that he wasn't going to be getting 73 odd starts a season and being utterly relied on with no thought or cap space given to a reasonable back up to take the load, ideally this would have forced the organization to think about both back up and replacemnet about 2 years ago.

The sad thing is goalies arn't that hard to find these days but you do actually have to think finding someone that can start 20 or 25 games a season is important

How is this a new plan for anything?
What would you have accomplished exactly that the Flames haven't?

The Flames did think about the future. That's why they were investing in Karlsson, Irving, Toskala etc and kept drafting others. That has not worked out obviously. So what's the other plan then?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What else do you want, what else could a succession plan be other than a list of possible names?

So our succession plan is two 19 year old goalies, a 21 year old goalie and a guy who may not even be Flames property after this season? Sounds like a good one.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=655977

We were too stupid to let Irving play in the AHL when he was there. So now we are going to experiment a bit because we don't have the foggiest clue what we are doing.

Feaster

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What else do you want, what else could a succession plan be other than a list of possible names?

Well one would hope that youi would have a decent back up in place that was starting 20 plus games a year with a younger player in the minors that would be the obvious replacement, once your nos 1 goalie got to 34 or so you would be bringing up the younger kid and splitting those 20 plus games with him and the back up so that you knew he was up to par, to be frank Irving should have been weeded out quicker and Ramos, if he is the heir apparent should be splitting those games now.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

So our succession plan is two 19 year old goalies, a 21 year old goalie and a guy who may not even be Flames property after this season? Sounds like a good one.

Perhaps the organization is confident they can sign ramo? Perhaps they know kipper is coming back next year? The doomsday attitude seems premature given all we don't know. What are the devils plans when Brodeur is done?

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What else do you want, what else could a succession plan be other than a list of possible names?

Boston had Raask. Vancouver has Schneider. Etc. Be nice to have one of them rather then a couple of long shot teenagers and a European import.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well one would hope that youi would have a decent back up in place that was starting 20 plus games a year with a younger player in the minors that would be the obvious replacement, once your nos 1 goalie got to 34 or so you would be bringing up the younger kid and splitting those 20 plus games with him and the back up so that you knew he was up to par, to be frank Irving should have been weeded out quicker and Ramos, if he is the heir apparent should be splitting those games now.

Ramo is under contract, what you describe hasn't been an option.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What else do you want, what else could a succession plan be other than a list of possible names?

Seriously, we have a 36 year old starting goalie, who *shockingly* got injured (as older players tend to do) and we had absolutely ZERO depth ready to come in and stop the gap.

Then, we type out a list of the greenest prospects and some dude in Siberia, to say, oh don't worry about it, everything's fine. Doing a great job!

Great plan. Really, just great. That's a plan Kevin Lowe would be proud of.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Boston had Raask. Vancouver has Schneider. Etc. Be nice to have one of them rather then a couple of long shot teenagers and a European import.

Two examples both of which are rare cases.

[Teroy]

Originally Posted by Red

How is this a new plan for anything?
What would you have accomplished exactly that the Flames haven't?

The Flames did think about the future. That's why they were investing in Karlsson, Irving, Toskala etc and kept drafting others. That has not worked out obviously. So what's the other plan then?

Yes and they gave Karlsson and Irving a great chance to develop???
They sat them on the bench, bounced them back and forth to the minors and then threw them in the deep end and expected miracles. Oh, but then you were expecting them to be the next comming of Kipper right out of the gate. Duh,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Red

How is this a new plan for anything?
What would you have accomplished exactly that the Flames haven't?

The Flames did think about the future. That's why they were investing in Karlsson, Irving, Toskala etc and kept drafting others. That has not worked out obviously. So what's the other plan then?

They didn't invest in Karlsson he was the cheapest goalie they could get and they played him because although they should have played Irving but bringing in a 500.000 pa schmoe saved cap space, in essence they didn't use Irving and work out his kinks 2 years ago in order to save 500,000 cap space then, the Flames have relied on Kippertaking up 70 plus games a year and then the team spending as little on his back up as possible, it was a dumb plan 2 years ago it is a dumb plan now

[Ashasx]

Finding goaltenders is not an exact science.

Kipper showed nothing to believe he'd be a starter before Darryl traded for him. He comes and and he's not an elite goaltender for the next decade.

Most of the star goaltenders in this league were picked in the latter rounds. It has proven time and time again that there is no difference between taking a goaltender in the first and a goaltender in the 5th.

Who knows what happens, but I know the Flames are giving themselves many options. You might not think they are good options, but you never know with goaltenders. Maybe Taylor comes in and proves he belongs in the NHL.