Irving, level of progress at 24?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Dallas' 3rd goal was soft, but don't forget that Cervenka passed him the puck when he wasn't expecting it.

If it had been Butler or Comeau that passed that puck back to Irving last night the majority of Calgarypuck wouldn't have even mentioned Irving was on the ice when it went it.

[timbit]

Seems to be a serious disconnect.

He can't beat out career minor leaguers to play in the AHL...yet the Flames are putting their playoff lives on the line with him as a starter while Kipper is out.

Have you watched all the games he has played in with the Flames over the past 2 seasons?

"He's not terribly but..." He has played some pretty damn good games.

Follow the Flames.

[EddyBeers]

He is fine in my opinion, one poster put up that he has a .895 SV%, which is not great but when he puts up a .879% over 20+ games is when I will worry, that is awful, probably impossible for a 26 year old goalie to ever amount to anything if they put up those type of numbers.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by timbit

He can't beat out career minor leaguers to play in the AHL...yet the Flames are putting their playoff lives on the line with him as a starter while Kipper is out.

It's pretty obvious Feaster and Ward aren't on the same page with Irving as they obviously share different opinions of his capabilities. It's very unusual for an NHL team to ice a backup goaltender that is 3rd on their depth chart on their farm team.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Envitro

It could be that he has an abundance of energy due to his age/stamina/fitness/genetics or whatever, but solving this issue would most likely solve the issue of over-comitting on shots as mentioned in point #1

Some goalies are naturally jittery and like to move their feet, though Irving isn't one of them. I definitely see this as an issue of confidence and excitement right now, something that should be fixed with time. He needs to be a little calm and identify when he can let the puck come to him as oppose to seeking it out (a major issue with his rebound goals is when he attempts to smother the puck aggressively instead of letting the players take a rebound shot at net).

Originally Posted by Envitro

5. On breakaways/Shootouts he commits too early and bites on the first fake. Yeah, just needs more experience/practice to get that out of his system. Nothing too mind-blowing but just a matter of getting that part out of his game. Kipper got better in SO's so why can't he?.

I think the big thing is how much Irving relies on the team in front of him to escort his movements at the moment. Irving's best play seems to be when he's standing still and needs to anticipate where the shot is going (as oppose to Kiprusoff, who's playing his best when he can measure his reaction speed and lateral movement to the attacker's).

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Confidence goes a long way at 24......if the entire fan base was made up of Calgarypuckers he'd have shot himself already.

I'm kind of curious: How heated was the pressure on Vernon compared to Irving so far? Would CP be an absolute trainwreck if it exited during his starter presence? I mean, his parents couldn't stand going to the games.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by saillias

That might have to do with the play of the team in front of him. I would suggest we have wins in spite of our goaltending this year.

Even last year, Irving earned points in 4 of 7 starts and one of the games he didn't the Flames took their patented penalty in the final 2 minutes to hand the game to the opponent. I also think 2 of his 3 OT losses came after the team took a penalty in OT.

Originally Posted by timbit

Seems to be a serious disconnect.

He can't beat out career minor leaguers to play in the AHL...yet the Flames are putting their playoff lives on the line with him as a starter while Kipper is out.

Have you watched all the games he has played in with the Flames over the past 2 seasons?

"He's not terribly but..." He has played some pretty damn good games.

Follow the Flames.

I am so sick of this same drivel over and over again from so many people that just can't seem to grasp what was going on in Abbotsford.

I will try this again.

He didn't "beat out" Brust and Taylor because he wasn't competing with them! He was not sent there to be a starter! It's a case of simple logic.

Ask yourself a question. If the season started on time how many games would have you likely seen a healthy Kiprisoff not start by mid-January? I would bet that answer would be in the 5-8 range, you know the same number of games Irving played in Abbotsford.

It is not easy for a goaltender who has always been a starter at every level to adapt to sitting and watching 85-90% of the games, the Flames used the lockout to get Irving accustomed to that role.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

It is not easy for a goaltender who has always been a starter at every level to adapt to sitting and watching 85-90% of the games, the Flames used the lockout to get Irving accustomed to that role.

LOL put down the pipe now.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Even last year, Irving earned points in 4 of 7 starts and one of the games he didn't the Flames took their patented penalty in the final 2 minutes to hand the game to the opponent. I also think 2 of his 3 OT losses came after the team took a penalty in OT.

I am so sick of this same drivel over and over again from so many people that just can't seem to grasp what was going on in Abbotsford.

I will try this again.

He didn't "beat out" Brust and Taylor because he wasn't competing with them! He was not sent there to be a starter! It's a case of simple logic.

Ask yourself a question. If the season started on time how many games would have you likely seen a healthy Kiprisoff not start by mid-January? I would bet that answer would be in the 5-8 range, you know the same number of games Irving played in Abbotsford.

It is not easy for a goaltender who has always been a starter at every level to adapt to sitting and watching 85-90% of the games, the Flames used the lockout to get Irving accustomed to that role.

You want to talk about drivel? LOL....read the absolute nonsense you wrote after " I will try this again".

So they are grooming the other 2 to be starters in the NHL. LMAO

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Even last year, Irving earned points in 4 of 7 starts and one of the games he didn't the Flames took their patented penalty in the final 2 minutes to hand the game to the opponent. I also think 2 of his 3 OT losses came after the team took a penalty in OT.

I am so sick of this same drivel over and over again from so many people that just can't seem to grasp what was going on in Abbotsford.

I will try this again.

He didn't "beat out" Brust and Taylor because he wasn't competing with them! He was not sent there to be a starter! It's a case of simple logic.

Ask yourself a question. If the season started on time how many games would have you likely seen a healthy Kiprisoff not start by mid-January? I would bet that answer would be in the 5-8 range, you know the same number of games Irving played in Abbotsford.

It is not easy for a goaltender who has always been a starter at every level to adapt to sitting and watching 85-90% of the games, the Flames used the lockout to get Irving accustomed to that role.

That's ridiculous. You don't need to be trained to be a back-up goalie. You just become one. And even if it were true it would show completely cluelessness on the organization thinking that the older goalie couldn't possibly get hurt.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL put down the pipe now.

Have you ever listened to goaltenders talk? It's been said many times by alot of different goaltenders that many goaltenders struggle to be a backup because its a completely different mindset than being a starter.

It's pretty common knowledge.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by timbit

You want to talk about drivel? LOL....read the absolute nonsense you wrote after " I will try this again".

So they are grooming the other 2 to be starters in the NHL. LMAO

I never talked about the other 2, but they wanted Irving to be ready to be a backup.

If the organization didn't have Irving rated higher than Taylor then Taylor would be starting right now and not Irving. It's not that difficult to see.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I never talked about the other 2, but they wanted Irving to be ready to be a backup.

If the organization didn't have Irving rated higher than Taylor then Taylor would be starting right now and not Irving. It's not that difficult to see.

So Taylor plays the majority of games because he would be a lesser back up than Irving at the NHL level....and they want Irving to be really well trained at opening the door properly.

Furthermore, now that the Flames need a short term starter...of course Irving is the guy over Taylor. It's not that difficult to see...right?

What's that old saying... About...." opening your mouth and removing all doubt."

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Have you ever listened to goaltenders talk? It's been said many times by alot of different goaltenders that many goaltenders struggle to be a backup because its a completely different mindset than being a starter.

It's pretty common knowledge.

I'm not arguing that it's a different mindset. I'm arguing about your post where you indicate the reson Irving wasn't playing in Abbotsford was because the Flames wanted him to get used to playing very occasionally. I've been wrong before but I have never, ever heard of a team using this ideology with their backup goaltender when assigned to the farm team.

[t0rrent98]

to be quite honest, if the season had started on time, there was no doubt in my mind that Irving would have backed up Kipper anyways. From what I see Barry Brust was bought in to take over Irving's spot on the Heat.

I bet if the season had started in October, you would have seen a different Irving.

[Flashpoint]

One thing that springs to mind is what it was like when Kipper first came aboard the Flames. For about 10 years I had watched opposition forwards walk into Calgary's end, make a nice play and bury the puck behind our keeper. Most of the time you could make a pretty good argument it wasn't the goalie's fault - there were nice passes, nice moves, our D got outmanned - he didn't have much of a chance.

The first few games with Miikka Kiprusoff, I would watch the opposition gain our end, walk into the slot... and then be shocked when they didn't score on plays where they "should" have scored. It was a strange feeling. For the first time since Vernon was traded in 1994, the goalie was saving things he shouldn't have. The team was able to make mistakes and get away with them.

For the past few games I've watched Irving play and once again you get that sinking feeling on odd man rushes - Irving's mostly making the stops he should, with maybe 1 bad one a game, but seldom stops them with a "Holy cow, how did he get a handle on that!?" you sort have expected for the past 9 years.

But others have said it best - you can't compare 24 year old Irving to a HOF goalie. Nobody could carry that burden in today's NHL.

This Flames team isn't very good. Most people accept that. Irving is the recipient of some very bad play in front of him defensively, but thus far has posted a winning record. That says something.

What will be really interesting is what happens if he starts to get more comfortable back there, and starts stopping some of the pucks you would expect to get by him.

Either way - this stretch will likely make or break his career. Opportunities to play behind Kipper have been non-existent for a decade. Let's hope Irving makes the most of it.

[St. Pats]

First time I've seen him in person was last night. He was at times impressive, mediocre and downright scary. He stood in there and held his ground when there was thrashing all around him. Then he looked clueless on a harmless shot. Then he gets beat by Morrow to the puck that was sitting right in front of him.

Good they scored seven cause he let four in was my exiting thought.

I'll chock it up to lack of experience but I don't have much confidence in his present abilities.

[Bigfeet24]

Having watched the last few games... It would appear that when the opposition have longer to make a play/shot he over thinks and is left in indecision. When its reaction saves, his instinct is pretty much spot on.

Hopefully the wins and game time will straighten this out.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I am so sick of this same drivel over and over again from so many people that just can't seem to grasp what was going on in Abbotsford.

I will try this again.

He didn't "beat out" Brust and Taylor because he wasn't competing with them! He was not sent there to be a starter! It's a case of simple logic.

Ask yourself a question. If the season started on time how many games would have you likely seen a healthy Kiprisoff not start by mid-January? I would bet that answer would be in the 5-8 range, you know the same number of games Irving played in Abbotsford.

It is not easy for a goaltender who has always been a starter at every level to adapt to sitting and watching 85-90% of the games, the Flames used the lockout to get Irving accustomed to that role.

What an absurd comment, why is Horak playing so much down there. By this logic Ward should be playing him 8-10 minute a night so he gets used to having to come on the ice cold and contribute. Same goes for Street and Byron.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Have you ever listened to goaltenders talk? It's been said many times by alot of different goaltenders that many goaltenders struggle to be a backup because its a completely different mindset than being a starter.

It's pretty common knowledge.

Many struggle because they want to be a starter that plays most nights. The successful ones accept the role that they have and adapt thier mindset to fit the role.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Even last year, Irving earned points in 4 of 7 starts and one of the games he didn't the Flames took their patented penalty in the final 2 minutes to hand the game to the opponent. I also think 2 of his 3 OT losses came after the team took a penalty in OT.

I am so sick of this same drivel over and over again from so many people that just can't seem to grasp what was going on in Abbotsford.

I will try this again.

He didn't "beat out" Brust and Taylor because he wasn't competing with them! He was not sent there to be a starter! It's a case of simple logic.

Ask yourself a question. If the season started on time how many games would have you likely seen a healthy Kiprisoff not start by mid-January? I would bet that answer would be in the 5-8 range, you know the same number of games Irving played in Abbotsford.

It is not easy for a goaltender who has always been a starter at every level to adapt to sitting and watching 85-90% of the games, the Flames used the lockout to get Irving accustomed to that role.

No they did not. Irving didn't play well in training camp and early in the season for the Heat and ended up riding the pine behind Taylor and Brust. NHL training camp comes along and Irving beats out Karlsson for the backup role behind Kiprusoff. The Flames position isn't what have you done for us in the past but what have you done lately.