So, is Cervenka liking the NHL?

[EVERLAST]

We need to get Jagr.......then we'd be laughing ......Butler, Comeau and ?........ To the stars for Jagr

Then the Czeching line would be complete......

[Bertuzzied]

Screw Jagr. If we can get Fleury and Begin on tryouts lets get Robert Reichel! and his crazy assed curved magic stick.

[theg69]

I assume by blood clot needing blood thinners, he developed a DVT (deep vein thrombosis), which usually occurs after a period of immobility or in some cases secondary to genetic predisposition (clotting disorders). The main risk of a DVT (and reason why we put people on blood thinners) is that it embolizes to the lungs and causes a PE (pulmonary embolism), which if untreated can lead to infarction of the lungs (lung "attack").

If he did have a pulmonary embolism (of course that was properly treated with blood thinners), I can't say I would blame him for taking some time getting back up to speed.

The best time to properly assess his conditioning is in another few weeks when any possible residual effects are gone and he is back into his appropriate game day/ fitness regime. That being said, I have noted his condition to look better in the past couple of games already compared to the beginning of the season.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Circa89

J Biomech Eng. 2008 Feb;130(1):011003. doi: 10.1115/1.2838029.
Effect of blood viscosity on oxygen transport in residual stenosed artery following angioplasty.

Kwon O, Krishnamoorthy M, Cho YI, Sankovic JM, Banerjee RK.
Source

Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OH 45221, USA.

Abstract

The effect of blood viscosity on oxygen transport in a stenosed coronary artery during the postangioplasty scenario is studied. In addition to incorporating varying blood viscosity using different hematocrit (Hct) concentrations, oxygen consumption by the avascular wall and its supply from vasa vasorum, nonlinear oxygen binding capacity of the hemoglobin, and basal to hyperemic flow rate changes are included in the calculation of oxygen transport in both the lumen and the avascular wall. The results of this study show that oxygen transport in the postangioplasty residual stenosed artery is affected by non-Newtonian shear-thinning property of the blood viscosity having variable Hct concentration. As Hct increases from 25% to 65%, the diminished recirculation zone for the increased Hct causes the commencement of pO(2) decrease to shift radially outward by approximately 20% from the center of the artery for the basal flow, but by approximately 10% for the hyperemic flow at the end of the diverging section. Oxygen concentration increases from a minimum value at the core of the recirculation zone to over 90 mm Hg before the lumen-wall interface at the diverging section for the hyperemic flow, which is attributed to increased shear rate and thinner lumen boundary layer for the hyperemic flow, and below 90 mm Hg for the basal flow. As Hct increases from 25% to 65%, the average of pO(2,min) beyond the diverging section drops by approximately 25% for the basal flow, whereas it increases by approximately 15% for the hyperemic flow. Thus, current results with the moderate stenosed artery indicate that reducing Hct might be favorable in terms of increasing O(2) flux and pO(2,min), in the medial region of the wall for the basal flow, while higher Hct is advantageous for the hyperemic flow beyond the diverging section. The results of this study not only provide significant details of oxygen transport under varying pathophysiologic blood conditions such as unusually high blood viscosity and flow rate, but might also be extended to offer implications for drug therapy related to blood-thinning medication and for blood transfusion and hemorrhage.

In layman's terms.... yes, it can affect it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He was able to skate, just no contact. Blood thinners have no effect on exercise tolerance. If his INR (the test to see how long it takes your blood to clot) was too high now and then they may have stopped him from skating for a few days until it came back down, but otherwise it makes zero difference.

If he is out of shape, he doesn't really have a medical excuse

I am just curious (and I am not trying to be a **** here, I am simply asking a question as I am confused)...

while he was waiting to see the specialist re his blood thinners, you were pretty adament that he would be out longer than the press releases were suggesting, much longer - like months.

now you are arguing that the thinners should have no effect on his recovery.

what am I missing that leaves you with those two viewpoints?

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Circa89

J Biomech Eng. 2008 Feb;130(1):011003. doi: 10.1115/1.2838029.
Effect of blood viscosity on oxygen transport in residual stenosed artery following angioplasty.

Kwon O, Krishnamoorthy M, Cho YI, Sankovic JM, Banerjee RK.
Source

Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OH 45221, USA.

Abstract

The effect of blood viscosity on oxygen transport in a stenosed coronary artery during the postangioplasty scenario is studied. In addition to incorporating varying blood viscosity using different hematocrit (Hct) concentrations, oxygen consumption by the avascular wall and its supply from vasa vasorum, nonlinear oxygen binding capacity of the hemoglobin, and basal to hyperemic flow rate changes are included in the calculation of oxygen transport in both the lumen and the avascular wall. The results of this study show that oxygen transport in the postangioplasty residual stenosed artery is affected by non-Newtonian shear-thinning property of the blood viscosity having variable Hct concentration. As Hct increases from 25% to 65%, the diminished recirculation zone for the increased Hct causes the commencement of pO(2) decrease to shift radially outward by approximately 20% from the center of the artery for the basal flow, but by approximately 10% for the hyperemic flow at the end of the diverging section. Oxygen concentration increases from a minimum value at the core of the recirculation zone to over 90 mm Hg before the lumen-wall interface at the diverging section for the hyperemic flow, which is attributed to increased shear rate and thinner lumen boundary layer for the hyperemic flow, and below 90 mm Hg for the basal flow. As Hct increases from 25% to 65%, the average of pO(2,min) beyond the diverging section drops by approximately 25% for the basal flow, whereas it increases by approximately 15% for the hyperemic flow. Thus, current results with the moderate stenosed artery indicate that reducing Hct might be favorable in terms of increasing O(2) flux and pO(2,min), in the medial region of the wall for the basal flow, while higher Hct is advantageous for the hyperemic flow beyond the diverging section. The results of this study not only provide significant details of oxygen transport under varying pathophysiologic blood conditions such as unusually high blood viscosity and flow rate, but might also be extended to offer implications for drug therapy related to blood-thinning medication and for blood transfusion and hemorrhage.

Did you read that before posting? That is a site specific study comparing coronary flows and it's effect with blood viscosity. People with coronary clots are regularly on blood thinners for 2 reasons, to prevent further clotting and to increase blood flow distal to the clot. Thinner blood has an easier time flowing past the clot because there is better laminar flow, thereby delivering more oxygen to the infarcting/injured area. The marginal increase in PO2 would have no effect on tissue oxygenation. Also PO2's run on different machines have an acceptable variance of +/- 6 so the slight increase in PO2 could just be from margin of error. Aside from fatigue from not being able to practice hard, blood thinners have pretty much no effect on oxygen content and delivery and would not cause a professional athlete any increased fatigue.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am just curious (and I am not trying to be a **** here, I am simply asking a question as I am confused)...

while he was waiting to see the specialist re his blood thinners, you were pretty adament that he would be out longer than the press releases were suggesting, much longer - like months.

now you are arguing that the thinners should have no effect on his recovery.

what am I missing that leaves you with those two viewpoints?

Normal patients have to be on blood thinners for three months. That has no impact on his fitness, but contact can lead to bleeding, which can be serious on anticoagulants, therefore playing would not be possible. Once off "blood thinners" he would be completely back to normal.

Also, "blood thinners" is a misnomer. What they do is inhibit a part of the clotting cascade, which leads to proteins in the blood clumping. Blood thinners DO NOT decrease viscosity of the blood.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

In layman's terms.... yes, it can affect it.

Blood thinners do not affect blood viscosity, so actually this study has nothing to do with what we're talking about


Edit: this study is talking about hematocrit, which is the amount of red blood cells in the blood. This has absolutely nothing to do with anticoagulants

[sworkhard]

Cervenka likely had to take fitness training easy while on the anticoagulant as he had to avoid anything that could result in him cutting himself, or breaking his skin in other ways as the wound either wouldn't clot at all, or would take a long time to clot. As such, he likely had to reduce the intensity of his training to reduce the risk of cutting, scratching, or otherwise creating a break in the skin.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Cervenka likely had to take fitness training easy while on the anticoagulant as he had to avoid anything that could result in him cutting himself, or breaking his skin in other ways as the wound either wouldn't clot at all, or would take a long time to clot. As such, he likely had to reduce the intensity of his training to reduce the risk of cutting, scratching, or otherwise creating a break in the skin.

They joked about how he got bag skated every day by Gelinas, so I doubt it

[cznTiburon]

This is his first year in North America which is a different paced game the he would have been used to. The season starts late with little training camp and he misses the whole thing. Game fitness, as ha been discussed everywhere with the shortened season, is something that is going to be off for the first few weeks of the season. I don't know why this has become such a thing, this should have been expected. You can train all you want but game shape is deifferent and when you miss the best training opportunities with a new team it will set you back even more.

He will get his fitness and he will continue to grow. This was a great signing by the flames and cervenka fits into the age and skill range the flames seem to have lacked in recent years. We need to re sign this guy, keep the Czechs going!

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Blood thinners do not affect blood viscosity, so actually this study has nothing to do with what we're talking about


Edit: this study is talking about hematocrit, which is the amount of red blood cells in the blood. This has absolutely nothing to do with anticoagulants

I wasn't claiming to know what the heck it said, might as well have been written in greek. I should have added a ? at the end of my post, lol.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He was able to skate, just no contact. Blood thinners have no effect on exercise tolerance. If his INR (the test to see how long it takes your blood to clot) was too high now and then they may have stopped him from skating for a few days until it came back down, but otherwise it makes zero difference.

If he is out of shape, he doesn't really have a medical excuse

Well I'd argue that not being able to participate in contact would impact your conditioning. Battling for a puck or fighting through a check tax you in a different way than simply skating, no matter how hard you work.

[theg69]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Normal patients have to be on blood thinners for three months. That has no impact on his fitness, but contact can lead to bleeding, which can be serious on anticoagulants, therefore playing would not be possible. Once off "blood thinners" he would be completely back to normal.

Also, "blood thinners" is a misnomer. What they do is inhibit a part of the clotting cascade, which leads to proteins in the blood clumping. Blood thinners DO NOT decrease viscosity of the blood.

Agreed with everything you say about the anticoagulants not affecting exercise capacity, but does anyone truly know the diagnosis. If he had a PE, that would definitely affect his exercise capacity.

I actually saw this young patient who was an athlete, albeit not a high performance one, who presented with exertional shortness of breath and in retrospect calf pain that he thought was a calf strain. He actually turned out to have a PE needing to be on anticoagulants for 3 months.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by theg69

Agreed with everything you say about the anticoagulants not affecting exercise capacity, but does anyone truly know the diagnosis. If he had a PE, that would definitely affect his exercise capacity.

I actually saw this young patient who was an athlete, albeit not a high performance one, who presented with exertional shortness of breath and in retrospect calf pain that he thought was a calf strain. He actually turned out to have a PE needing to be on anticoagulants for 3 months.

I suppose not, but I would doubt any hematologist would take someone off anticoagulants a month after a PE. If anything, I'm guessing he doubts the DVT diagnosis

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Blood thinners do not affect blood viscosity, so actually this study has nothing to do with what we're talking about


Edit: this study is talking about hematocrit, which is the amount of red blood cells in the blood. This has absolutely nothing to do with anticoagulants

That's not true. The relative viscosity of blood has a non-linear increase when compared with hematocrit level. The more RBC's in a sample of blood the viscosity increases. When I've drawn blood from a polycythemic COPDer and compared it with a "normal" blood sample, you can see the difference with the naked eye. But beyond that it has been proven using a viscometer.

Edit: Nevermind Street Pharmacist. I re-read what you wrote. I thought you were saying Hct had no affect on viscosity, my bad.

[theg69]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I suppose not, but I would doubt any hematologist would take someone off anticoagulants a month after a PE. If anything, I'm guessing he doubts the DVT diagnosis

Hmm.. fair enough, but I thought he was put on it for 3 months, which is a typical treatment course for a 1st time unprovoked episode of a DVT/PE.

Edit: just googled and double checked - was sidelined end of Nov - so you are right, he was not on it for the full 3 months.

[HPLovecraft]

I found a link on the internet, I therefore know what I'm talking about.

[Stay Golden]

After he has played 20-25 games i would like Feaster to offer him a 3-4m per for 4 years.
I like this Cervenka with Hudler especially but he has been good with anyone Hartley has played him with.
His stamina has not caught with his skill set yet but when it does this guy is a keeper.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by dammage79

His ELC is bonus laden to 3.7 is it not? If he does well I can see him asking for 4-4.5. On a three year deal I could live with that.

His ELC is for $3.775M, but realistically, it's more like $1.5M.

$2 million of the contract is "Schedule B" bonuses, which are only earned if you finish in the top five in voting for the year-end league awards, or win the Conn Smythe, or get named to the year-end All-Star teams. Because he isn't eligible for the Calder, Cervenka is likely going to get $0 of his Schedule B bonuses (as do most players on ELCs).


Of the other $1.775M on his contract, only $925,000 is guaranteed, and $850,000 is "Schedule A" bonuses, which are based on personal performance, and team-relative performance, so they're easier to achieve.

Here's the breakdown of what he can get: http://www.capgeek.com/faq/how-do-en...racts-work.php


Right now, it doesn't look like he's on-pace to get any of the Schedule A bonuses either (assuming the numbers are prorated to the shorter season), but they're still obtainable if his play keeps improving.