[$50 bet] Dion vs Bertuzzied; Which Flames goalie starts Monday

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think it says a lot about the character of the Calgary Flames when they let the kid get lit up.

Yeah, they were losing but they didnt even play for pride and they didnt give a rat's ass about the rookie between the pipes playing his damned heart out. That was sickening.

I question Iginla, Gio, Tanguay, Glencross, Bouwmeester being Sr players on this team not grabbing their team mates and making it clear we are not going to lay down and desert our goalie.

Problem is they were the most guilty.
I really with Sarich was playing lastnight for that one reason. Sarich plays with pride.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

I question Iginla, Gio, Tanguay, Glencross, Bouwmeester being Sr players on this team not grabbing their team mates and making it clear we are not going to lay down and desert our goalie.

Problem is they were the most guilty.
I really with Sarich was playing lastnight for that one reason. Sarich plays with pride.

Giordano and Glencross are usually guys you can count on to play with pride but even they seemed like they didnt want to be there.

Seriously, Bettman may as well lock the doors again because the players are getting paid but they sure dont seem like they're interested in playing.

[FlamesAddiction]

The only one that "deserves" to start is the one that gives us the best chance to win. Maybe that's Iriving, and I am not blaming him for the loss, but he isn't making too many big saves and it's unrealistic to not expect the other team to have good scoring chances.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Giordano and Glencross are usually guys you can count on to play with pride but even they seemed like they didnt want to be there.

Seriously, Bettman may as well lock the doors again because the players are getting paid but they sure dont seem like they're interested in playing.

Glencross is a chippy pouter.

Jackman and sarich play with pride. That's it, though.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Glencross is a chippy pouter.

Jackman and sarich play with pride. That's it, though.

I would throw Jones in that group too, but it is few and far between on this team.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

I would throw Jones in that group too, but it is few and far between on this team.

Yeah, you're right, Begin too.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Dion

Let me get this straight..... If I win you owe me $50 and if you win I can't post a gif for 2 weeks. Is this what you are suggesting?

Yup!!! and no thanx to those other offers.

Irving starts you get $50.

Taylor or anyone else that starts, you can't post a gif for 2 weeks or I get $50. hehe~!

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

I would throw Jones in that group too, but it is few and far between on this team.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, you're right, Begin too.

i would agree Jones and Begin play with pride. I wasn't for Begin making the roster but at least the guy doesn't lay down on the job. Plays with some moxy.

[Bertuzzied]

And lol to those Irving apologists. hehe

"but he has rust thats why he is shaky" He has looked that way from the beginning of his NHL career. Even in pre-season. That is why i think he is not an NHL level goalie. It's been 2 years. The only game he shook that off was in last years win against the Canucks. But even then he had some spectacular saves because he was out of position. Plus his rebound control is terrible.

He was gifted this back up job because of a training camp scrimmage over Karlson. I think fistpump boy would have looked just as good(or as bad) the past 2 games.

Irving gave up 2 super untimely goals in 2 straight games which instantly deflated the team. The good thing was we played a pretty crappy team in Columbus to get a win.

I know he is a former first rounder but holy does he get a free pass on here. If Mcbackup, or Sauve or Boucher or Karlsson gave up 9 goals in a game, gave the BJs a tying goal 24 seconds after we take a lead, or gives up a terrible game winning goal to the Canucks last nite if they would be treated the same.

[djsFlames]

People on here are way too protective of Irvings feelings and confidence, and claiming that he deserves to start games from here on simply because he out battled Karlsson in training camp. If there was a full camp in Oct rather than a week camp in Jan with Taylor and Brust already occupied with duties for the Heat, Taylor would have been here in tryouts to battle with Irving for the same spot. He didn't get that chance because with the circumstances it obviously wasn't worth pulling out him or Brust when they were already deep into an AHL season and had two other guys already signed. Doesn't mean either was playing stellar or management's ideal choice to backup Kipper based on merit, but it's just the only thing that made sense with the shortened timeline and contract situation. And they were only dealing with potentially 3-4 starts (without a Kipper injury) and sure, Irving was the better of the two. I like Irving, but I think people are glorifying just how much he has 'earned' here.

He's been average, and hasn't exactly solidified his rights to start all of the games in absence of Kipper no matter what. And I believe in exploring all of your options to see IF one gives you a better chance, just as Hartley has done with these rotations and different line combos. It's straight up ignorant not to consider starting Taylor not as a detriment to Irving's play at all, but because he has been solid enough to earn a chance to prove himself to the team, and because you've got to explore your options for the sake of winning. I mean it's not like if he starts and falls on his face, you can't flip him for Irving 20 minutes in. I really don't understand what all this whining is about. You think Irving can't handle it? He's a man. And there is absolutely zero harm in trying. Especially now near the end of Kipper's reign. We sort of NEED to audition a few goalies, no? We can't say Ramo is already a sure thing before he has yet come over, so what better than to test a guy in real game action?

Saying that he couldn't and absolutely should not start a game because Irving won a battle of two goalies playing average hockey is some of the dumbest horse crap I've seen on here.

[flamesfever]

I hope Irving plays. I think most people are too quick to write off these young goalies. A bad game here and there means nothing. I'd like to see him get a 10 to 20 game stretch.

[MyFlamesFirst]

I hope Taylor plays. Not because Irving is playing awful, just because I think Taylor deserves it.

[Stay Golden]

Yes Irving is average, nothing special from 60 others in the league. There is good damn reason goalies seldom go in the first round.

[moon]

Do people really think that the Flames kept Irving only because of his contract?

Taylor was wanted by 0 NHL teams and just signed a dirt cheap one year deal. If the Flames thought he was good enough to be in the NHL or a better choice than Irving he would have been on the team in a heartbeat no matter where Irving was drafted or what his contract was.

Irving was the back-up this year because of all the options the Flames had he was (in their view) the best player and the one that best helped the Flames win games.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by moon

Do people really think that the Flames kept Irving only because of his contract?

Taylor was wanted by 0 NHL teams and just signed a dirt cheap one year deal. If the Flames thought he was good enough to be in the NHL or a better choice than Irving he would have been on the team in a heartbeat no matter where Irving was drafted or what his contract was.

Irving was the back-up this year because of all the options the Flames had he was (in their view) the best player and the one that best helped the Flames win games.

Due to the circumstances (mid season, short camp), it isn't a stretch to believe that Irving and Karlsson were the ones dueling it out because they were the ones with contracts already, and they were dealing with very limited playtime if any in a 48 game season behind Kipper prior to injury.

Despite how little desireablility he may have had coming into the organization, the fact remains that on the farm team level, Taylor was the top tender of the group, which for while let us not forget, included Irving.

So we've gone now from trying to claim that giving Taylor a start would be implying Irving has dropped the ball (which isn't true), to claiming that Taylor does not deserve to be here because of his past (irrelevant)..

[moon]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Due to the circumstances (mid season, short camp), it isn't a stretch to believe that Irving and Karlsson were the ones dueling it out because they were the ones with contracts already, and they were dealing with very limited playtime if any in a 48 game season behind Kipper prior to injury.

Despite how little desireablility he may have had coming into the organization, the fact remains that on the farm team level, Taylor was the top tender of the group, which for while let us not forget, included Irving.

So we've gone now from trying to claim that giving Taylor a start would be implying Irving has dropped the ball (which isn't true), to claiming that Taylor does not deserve to be here because of his past (irrelevant)..

Steve Begin didn't have a deal and was coming in mid-season but the Flames had no issue giving him a deal and putting a guy like Horak back on the farm. It also wasn't like this is the first time the Flames had ever seen Taylor either as he was with Abbotsford last season and has plenty of time playing pro hockey. If the Flames thought he was the best choice for back-up they would have signed him and had him at camp fighting out for a spot. With their win at all costs mentality there is no way there are leaving a guy off the team because of some BS contract issues (which weren't even an issue.)

Who is saying Taylor doesn't deserve a spot due to his history?

I said he wasn't on the team as a back-up ahead of Irving because the Flames thought that Irving was a better player who gave them a better chance to win games as the back-up not because of some BS contract issues.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by moon

Steve Begin didn't have a deal and was coming in mid-season but the Flames had no issue giving him a deal and putting a guy like Horak back on the farm. It also wasn't like this is the first time the Flames had ever seen Taylor either as he was with Abbotsford last season and has plenty of time playing pro hockey. If the Flames thought he was the best choice for back-up they would have signed him and had him at camp fighting out for a spot. With their win at all costs mentality there is no way there are leaving a guy off the team because of some BS contract issues (which weren't even an issue.)

Who is saying Taylor doesn't deserve a spot due to his history?

I said he wasn't on the team as a back-up ahead of Irving because the Flames thought that Irving was a better player who gave them a better chance to win games as the back-up not because of some BS contract issues.

Because Steve Begin wasn't already tied up with starting goaltending duties for the organization's farm team. And because you're dealing with an extra contract for a mere couple of starts, potentially none at all, coming in. Which the team could get by with the better contestant of Karl/Irving just fine. Keep in mind they were willing to give it to the Calgary Tower, if he had looked better than Irving in training camp. So perhaps Irvings value to the team coming in wasn't exactly sky high. Just saying...

[MolsonInBothHands]

Irvine plays.

This team plays fragile enough in front of the backup. I don't want to see what they play like in front of the backup backup. Build some confidence in Irvine, and the rest of the team, nobody is tough enough on this team to have Taylor in net.

[moon]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Because Steve Begin wasn't already tied up with starting goaltending duties for the organization's farm team. And because you're dealing with an extra contract for a mere couple of starts, potentially none at all, coming in. Which the team could get by with the better contestant of Karl/Irving just fine. Keep in mind they were willing to give it to the Calgary Tower, if he had looked better than Irving in training camp. So perhaps Irvings value to the team coming in wasn't exactly sky high. Just saying...

So the Heat couldn't have had Brust start for a week and sign Sexsmith (or someone else) to a PTO to fill in while the Flames waited to see who won the back-up battle in TC? The Flames also think that Taylor is better than Irving but let him stay in Abbotsford available for any team in the league to sign away at any time?

I think the management staff is fairly poor overall but that seems like borderline ######ed thinking if they actually thought Taylor was a better option.

I don't think that they thought Irvings value was sky high just that it was higher than Taylor's and that's why going into the season he was the back-up and Taylor wasn't even signed to a contract.

[Hack&Lube]

Bertuzzied should have to pay $50 in comic books