Jason Kenney wants to take away Cdn citizenship from terrorists

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Is there any source for this claim? Not that I don't believe you, it's just the first I've heard of it.

Pretty much. I dabble in immigration work, and there's no doubt the hammer is falling on the legit as well as the not so legit.

Have a look at our new "safe countries" policy which, if you look behind it, is largely aimed at keeping out groups like the Roma. I have heard anecdotally that the Canadian Government has paid for advertising space in Hungary to alert people (Roma) to our new immigration policies - essentially saying the door is closed.

The immigration system, once you get to know it, is still a messy business. It's just a meaner business now too.

Edit: As always, the Canadian Jewish news comes through.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Is there any source for this claim? Not that I don't believe you, it's just the first I've heard of it.

I know this from personal experience as a Canadian living abroad for many years and how people discuss Canada, from work that I do and conversations with members of trade commissions, from reading reports on how Canada is being affected by policy decisions and from the fact that many agents for foreigners looking for places to study don't want to represent Canadian schools and businesses because of the difficulty that is faced in getting Canadian visas compared to other desirable countries.

On an even more personal level, I can say that after having just processed a visa for my wife to travel to the UK with me this spring, it was much easier for her to get a visa to go there than to go to Canada when she is in married to a Canadian. People talk about these things, and it reflects on the reputation of the country. It's not good for Canada.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I know this from personal experience as a Canadian living abroad for many years and how people discuss Canada, from work that I do and conversations with members of trade commissions, from reading reports on how Canada is being affected by policy decisions and from the fact that many agents for foreigners looking for places to study don't want to represent Canadian schools and businesses because of the difficulty that is faced in getting Canadian visas compared to other desirable countries.

On an even more personal level, I can say that after having just processed a visa for my wife to travel to the UK with me this spring, it was much easier for her to get a visa to go there than to go to Canada when she is in married to a Canadian. People talk about these things, and it reflects on the reputation of the country. It's not good for Canada.

Honestly though, who are they to look down their noses at us? What countries do they come from that are so much better and have more liberal immigration policies?


I'll just be blunt. Most immigrants that want to come to Canada these days are from crap hole countries. They can take their low opinion of Canada and shove it.

[Rerun]

Looks like a lot of people are complaining about how Canada is now a tougher country to immigrate too. This is bad?

I'm tired of Canada having a reputation as being a soft touch and that just about anybody could move here.

Most things in life that are worthwhile having are usually difficult to obtain. I would like to think that Canadian citizenship is now one of those things too.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Have a look at our new "safe countries" policy which, if you look behind it, is largely aimed at keeping out groups like the Roma. I have heard anecdotally that the Canadian Government has paid for advertising space in Hungary to alert people (Roma) to our new immigration policies - essentially saying the door is closed.

Shouldn't the door be closed, though? If inordinate amounts of money are being spent rejecting applications for asylum from the same countries, isn't that interfering with the processing of legitimate claims from other asylum seekers? Assuming you have limited resources, what you are looking for is the greater good, and if you will process a greater number of legitimate claims by disallowing claims from countries that are not repressive in nature, then that is what you should do.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Honestly though, who are they to look down their noses at us? What countries do they come from that are so much better and have more liberal immigration policies?


I'll just be blunt. Most immigrants that want to come to Canada these days are from crap hole countries. They can take their low opinion of Canada and shove it.

Really? I hate to even have to point this out, but my ancestors came to North America from two other "crap hole countries". I've got news for you though, most people don't uproot their families and head halfway around the world leaving loved ones behind who they might never see again on a whim.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Slava

Really? I hate to even have to point this out, but my ancestors came to North America from two other "crap hole countries". I've got news for you though, most people don't uproot their families and head halfway around the world leaving loved ones behind who they might never see again on a whim.

I also bet your ancestors had a high opinion of Canada and didn't complain about it being too hard to move here and make a life for themselves here, so my post wouldn't apply to them.

I am a child from an immigrant family (first one born here). I didn't even speak English until I started school. It's not like I don't appreciate the difficulties immigrants have, but I take exception to the ones that complain about Canada as if tougher immigration policies don't make it better than the alternatives.

It bothers me when I hear new immigrants complaining that Canada misled them at to the job opportunities or quality of life here, when a great deal of them refuse to live anywhere out side of the biggest cities. Well no #### you can't find work in Toronto... a lot of people born and raised here can't find work there either and are forced to move to where the jobs are. We came with literally nothing and didn't slum it in the city. We moved to the developing areas of the country where they really needed immigrants at the time.

Another thing that bothers me was almost weekly when I lived in Vancouver, there would be stories about immigrants from Latin America and Asia getting busted for organized crime. This is why tougher immigration policies are needed. Yes, it sucks that legitimate people also get screened out because of it, but Canada can afford to be be picky these days. We are not a colony anymore. Most countries in the world are fussier than we are when it comes to these issues.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Honestly though, who are they to look down their noses at us? What countries do they come from that are so much better and have more liberal immigration policies?


I'll just be blunt. Most immigrants that want to come to Canada these days are from crap hole countries. They can take their low opinion of Canada and shove it.

That is entirely beside the point. It's not about whether or not Canada has a better reputation than their country. It's a matter of what Canada and Canadians lose out on to people in other desirable countries as a result of policy decisions that damage Canada's reputation internationally. Reputation affects tourism, business and treatment of Canadians abroad too. With the BRIC Countries on the way up there are a lot of wealthy people in not such great countries looking for places to move to, to take business to, to have their kids educated in and to travel to for fun. If that is going to another desirable country then Canadians are losing out, so I would say it's much less about an issue of worrying about whether or not Canada is better than some other countries that immigrants are coming from and much more an issue of keeping Canadians well positioned to benefit from people in those countries coming up.

Originally Posted by Rerun

Looks like a lot of people are complaining about how Canada is now a tougher country to immigrate too. This is bad?

I'm tired of Canada having a reputation as being a soft touch and that just about anybody could move here.

Most things in life that are worthwhile having are usually difficult to obtain. I would like to think that Canadian citizenship is now one of those things too.

Then perhaps you just shouldn't take it personally. Taking Canada's reputation personally isn't a very good basis for a practical discussion.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by jammies

Shouldn't the door be closed, though? If inordinate amounts of money are being spent rejecting applications for asylum from the same countries, isn't that interfering with the processing of legitimate claims from other asylum seekers? Assuming you have limited resources, what you are looking for is the greater good, and if you will process a greater number of legitimate claims by disallowing claims from countries that are not repressive in nature, then that is what you should do.

How wide you crack the door is a matter of policy. I would say the issue is similar the structure of our criminal justice system, which is founded on the idea that 1000 guilty men will go free to avoid 1 innocent man being incarcerated. In the case of immigration, it may be the opposite: 1000 innocent applicants are cast aside to avoid letting one sneaky cheat into the country.

Where you want to draw the line - 10, 100, 500, 1000 goodies for every baddie - is a matter of personal opinion and policy, weighing the pros and cons. Some will say our immigration system is too harsh, just as some will say our criminal justice system is too lenient.

But if the topic of discussion is narrowed to the perceptions of potential immigrants to Canada, I think there can be no doubt: they quite rightly perceive a move towards the harsher side of the spectrum, and this perception will be shared by the goodies and baddies alike.

The Hungarian billboards are perhaps only the most obvious example of this shift.

I mean, how much clearer can you be than putting up a billboard targeting an specific ethnic group deterring them from applying to Canada? Not the type of thing that increases people's affection towards Canada or their perceptions of Canadians, I would think.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I mean, how much clearer can you be than putting up a billboard targeting an specific ethnic group deterring them from applying to Canada? Not the type of thing that increases people's affection towards Canada or their perceptions of Canadians, I would think.

There was a picture of the billboard in the attached article, and nowhere on there did it target a specific ethnic group. "Roma, stay home, you indigent thieves!" was not the message, but "An announcement from the Government of Canada. To deter abuse, Canada’s refugee system has changed. People with unfounded claims will be sent home faster. Learn more: www.cic.gc.ca/change"

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by jammies

There was a picture of the billboard in the attached article, and nowhere on there did it target a specific ethnic group. "Roma, stay home, you indigent thieves!" was not the message, but "An announcement from the Government of Canada. To deter abuse, Canada’s refugee system has changed. People with unfounded claims will be sent home faster. Learn more: www.cic.gc.ca/change"

And only placed where it was because of that city's high number of Roma. It wasn't just a public service announcement for your average Hungarian.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Then perhaps you just shouldn't take it personally. Taking Canada's reputation personally isn't a very good basis for a practical discussion.

I'm Canadian and I've lived in Canada all my life and I take pride in my country.... so why shouldn't I take it personally?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

And only placed where it was because of that city's high number of Roma. It wasn't just a public service announcement for your average Hungarian.

That's not really "targeting a specific ethnic group" any more than the sign on Highway 1 between Calgary and Banff warning "Watch for pedestrians on the road" just by the reserve "targets" First Nations people as drunken hitchhikers.

Here's a crazy thought - maybe they looked into this, saw that a disproportionate amount of bogus claimants were from Hungary, and that a disproportionate amount of Hungarian rejects originally lived in Miskolc, and thus decided that's where the billboards should go. That seems a lot simpler an explanation than that the Canadian government has decided the Roma need not apply.

Further, isn't Hungary part of the EU? So couldn't these "refugees" just move to another EU country? Why do they need to seek asylum in Canada? Not that I'm discounting that they might actually face persecution, but I'd rather give asylum to people who have no other hope, rather than people who have many choices about where they could go.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Looks like a lot of people are complaining about how Canada is now a tougher country to immigrate too. This is bad?

I'm tired of Canada having a reputation as being a soft touch and that just about anybody could move here.

Most things in life that are worthwhile having are usually difficult to obtain. I would like to think that Canadian citizenship is now one of those things too.

I see absolutely no reason for that claim outside of xenophobia. Without high numbers of immigration, Canada would collapse, and that's not a debatable fact.

You want to see less immigration? Get Canadians to start making more babies. Until then, it's a necessity of our country.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I see absolutely no reason for that claim outside of xenophobia. Without high numbers of immigration, Canada would collapse, and that's not a debatable fact.

You want to see less immigration? Get Canadians to start making more babies. Until then, it's a necessity of our country.

I'm all over that

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I see absolutely no reason for that claim outside of xenophobia. Without high numbers of immigration, Canada would collapse, and that's not a debatable fact.

You want to see less immigration? Get Canadians to start making more babies. Until then, it's a necessity of our country.

Who wants high numbers when those numbers include criminals, gang members, the unskilled and un/under-educated, welfare recipients, taxi cab drivers, waitresses, and terrorists.

Its time to set the immigration bar a little higher and I'm glad the Conservatives are doing it.

Canada is a great country with a lot to offer, and its about time we stopped letting just about anybody in, just as long as they were breathing.

Canada will always be a primo destination to emmigrate to, but its about time we started keeping the riff raff out. We have enough home grown riff raff, as it is. We don't need any more, coming here from elsewhere..

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Who wants high numbers when those numbers include criminals, gang members, the unskilled and un/under-educated, welfare recipients, taxi cab drivers, waitresses, and terrorists.

Rerun, you sound dangerously like an American Tea Partier.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I see absolutely no reason for that claim outside of xenophobia. Without high numbers of immigration, Canada would collapse, and that's not a debatable fact.

You want to see less immigration? Get Canadians to start making more babies. Until then, it's a necessity of our country.

This right here is key. Canada is already, for its future, trending on a very poor population strategy. Immigration allow us to bolster our non-natural numbers while allowing for more babies to be naturally born in Canada.

Immigration = good
Rerun = allow dogs to come to canada so they can goto ranchmans.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Who wants high numbers when those numbers include criminals, gang members, the unskilled and un/under-educated, welfare recipients, taxi cab drivers, waitresses, and terrorists.

Its time to set the immigration bar a little higher and I'm glad the Conservatives are doing it.

Canada is a great country with a lot to offer, and its about time we stopped letting just about anybody in, just as long as they were breathing.

Canada will always be a primo destination to emmigrate to, but its about time we started keeping the riff raff out. We have enough home grown riff raff, as it is. We don't need any more, coming here from elsewhere..

Could you provide numbers in terms of percentages or even raw figures of the amount of "useless and disruptive" immigrants entering the country?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Rerun, you sound dangerously like an American Tea Partier.

So am I wrong for wanting the standard set higher than its been in the past?

Or should we just get rid of all standards, qualifications, and regulations and let everybody who has the where withal to cross our shores, become a Canadian citizen? We certainly would solve our population problem that way.