What does it mean to be Canadian?

[Mr.Coffee]

ok a quick disclaimer here- I'm drunk right now. But I've got to put my opinion in on this.

For some reason what Calgary Flames (or I guess jordan right?) said seems to strike a nerve. Aside from the fact that he had every right to think that way and I really understand where he's coming from seeing how we are the most American city in Canada, something about that input really struck a nerve.

I guess that's partially hitting my sense of pride. I just tend to think that there definitely IS a difference between Canadians and Americans. Neither is better then the other, but there is a difference. I used to live overseas in Cyprus, a lot of the people in Europe seemed to really admire what Canadians represented- whatever that was I was really proud to be it.

Why do some Americans sew Canadian flags on their backpacks when travelling?

To me, Canadians represent peace. I think Canadian people in general are relatively laid back. Lately- like Jordan has been hinting at- this seems to be a function of canadian society that is slightly dissolving. It kind of bugs me.

Aaaaanyway. That's a long way to say- I think Canadians are peaceful, encourage peace and in general have a high degree of respect and understanding.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Come on Lanny....

I think there is more than a few people that would like to know how you can work in the States and hold the views you do about them?

How is it that your American co-workers haven't figured out how low you regard them and their country in general? Or have they and hence your continual presence on this board.

Why not let the newest grads know what you think of them, their government and their country? You do beleive it don't ya? What are you afraid of?

They are ignorant Americans! Show them you moral and intellectual superiority!!!! Give them both barrels!

Don't you worry, jackass, I will be more than willing to share my contempt for their GOVERNMENT and for their HUBRIS and for their IGNORANCE of the world around them. I will be more than willing to explain how their actions of the past two elections has the majority of the world distancing themselves from America, when at one horrific moment, we were ALL Americans. I have watched this country **** opportunity after opportunity, to be the good guy and ride in on a white charger to save the save the day, and instead be selfish and short-sighted. America lacks big thinkers with long term objectives. They look no further than their feet and where they may make a buck. They don't care for the future and it shows in their actions (medicare, social security, the environment, the deficit, etc.). America needs new leadership that thinks on a global scale without profit entering into the equation. There is a time when you have to invest in the future, and for the America and the world, that time is now. That is what I will share with these graduates.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Mango

While I was in Croatia, I had a small Canadian patch on my backpack. Although I was speaking Croatian while going through many of the cities, people would talk to me in English. One particular vendor in a street market said, "You come from a good country." I never really understood what being Canadian was until that moment. It was something so little, and yet, it impacted me a great deal.

When I hit Canadian soil again, I thought "Here I am. This country is who I am." Being Canadian represents patience, diversity, compassion, but above everything, tolerance. There's all citizens are very Canadian-esque and it's not because we say "eh" .

Where is the hand-clap emoticon??? Great post. Thanks Mango!

[Fuzzy McGillicuddy]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

I have been asked to speak to a graduating class of university students about what it is to be Canadian. I am very proud of my heritage and have an opinion (shocking isn't it) on what it is to be Canadian, but I thought I would like to hear what some other people think it is to be Canadian. Please keep the jokes to a minimum and try and help me augment a presentation on what are Canadian ideals, attitudes and culture (yes, we have a very fine culture, one to be proud of). I would like to hear from you folks what you think differentiates Canadians from Americans and what makes Canada the country it is.

Being a Canadian is demanding that government fix whatever real or perceived problems you have in your life. If your neighbor has more than you, government should take some of it and give it to you. It's the politics of envy.

I heard Canadian film director Norman Jewison once describe a Canadian lobster trap (an analogy of how Canadians treat success). A Canadian lobster trap doesn't have any netting on the top because if one lobster tries to leave, the others will claw him back down.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Don't you worry, jackass, I will be more than willing to share my contempt for their GOVERNMENT and for their HUBRIS and for their IGNORANCE of the world around them. I will be more than willing to explain how their actions of the past two elections has the majority of the world distancing themselves from America, when at one horrific moment, we were ALL Americans. I have watched this country **** opportunity after opportunity, to be the good guy and ride in on a white charger to save the save the day, and instead be selfish and short-sighted. America lacks big thinkers with long term objectives. They look no further than their feet and where they may make a buck. They don't care for the future and it shows in their actions (medicare, social security, the environment, the deficit, etc.). America needs new leadership that thinks on a global scale without profit entering into the equation. There is a time when you have to invest in the future, and for the America and the world, that time is now. That is what I will share with these graduates.

Make sure it is profane-laced!

BTW: Love the quote. Add this to it.

Representative democracy is a form of democracy founded on the exercise of popular sovereignty by the people's representants. It is a theory of civics in which voters choose (in free, secret, multi-party elections) representatives to act in their interests, but not as their proxies—i.e., not necessarily according to their voters' wishes, but with enough authority to exercise initiative in the face of changing circumstances. Another form of representative democracy involves impartial selection of representatives through sortition.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

^^^^^

And I'll make sure to tell that that you (that expert on democracy) says its okay that they don't know anything about the platforms they are voting on, they should just go into the voting booth and start pulling levers!

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I'm talking about every day life, not huge international events.

Ok fair enough, but I guess maybe what I'm saying is that we are far less reserved than we used to be, albeit maybe not to the extent Americans are.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

^^^^^

And I'll make sure to tell that that you (that expert on democracy) says its okay that they don't know anything about the platforms they are voting on, they should just go into the voting booth and start pulling levers!

No, no....

Say this....

Some ****ing, dickwad bonehead said that democracy is using your rights to vote for you rulers. i.e the citizens actively participating in the democratic process. Then in response to my high and mighty superior intellectual assumption that all Iraqis didn't have a clue what they were doing (we will ignore that people who risk life and limp 3 times obviously do) ie. because they got their information from some Imam and did as they were told.....this dink, ****wad, cumloader said democracy doesn't hinge on whether you know what you are doing.
(Did I add enough profanity?)

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Cheese

• Candians are more tolerant and respectful.
• Canadians are "Peace Loving"
• Multicultural
• Space....lots of space to camp, travel, with trees, rocks and FRESH water.
• Nobody notices us.
• Freedom of choice.

• Stereotype, you'd be surprise how much criminal activities there are in a supposedly "peaceful" and "safe" setting.
• More like underfunded in national defense and thus lack the capability to stir any up
• Maybe in the big metro urban centres, you'd be surprised how a visible minority still gets those subtle 1950s-esque attitude around here by the older folks.
• True
• Get out more often and you'll be surprised at the places where we get treated like royalty, everyone loves a stereotypical Canuck. Holland & Japan comes to mind personally.
• Any first world country should have this as a basic...are you saying this is exclusively Canadian? (I might be misinterpreting you here)

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Expanding on this question, here are some of the issues I am to address:

What does Canada stand for?

What do Canadians stand for?

What are the similarities/differences between the USA and Canada (culture, politics, etc.)?

What are the similarities/differences between Canadians and Americans?

How do Canadians view the USA and Americans?

I know you can't say this in your speech but really, Canada is not a country that takes a stand one way or the other thanks to 12 years of fidgeting Fiberal rule.

Canadians...I would say most of us have a don't bother us attitude, sure it's our nature to be charitable, "send them some $$ and supplies and a peacekeeping team, don't bother us any further" seems to be our only answer to international policies. So I guess that about sums it up in one line.


As for similarities & differences it depends on which part of the country you're talking about. I find the Prairies' outlook to be much more similar to our southern neighbours' than the one held by the urbanite liberal-minded Canadian. I find most Canadians like to cling to the stereotypes and measures their "Canadianity" with how much they are NOT like Americans. Take a random poll in BC and Toronto and you will know what I mean. Even in Calgary where we get called America Jr. all the time by the rest of the country have a hint of this attitude that we are a somehow more superior breed even though we share the same continent and all our ancestors immigrated here around the same time, oh and their economy is only about a billion times bigger. The truth is neither country can get by as comfortably as they are now without each other, but anyone objective will know who needs who more in this partnership. I just don't get all the hating on those south of the border. Sure, their government is arrogant and not the best, but ours wasn't exactly a model government for the past decade either.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

• Stereotype, you'd be surprise how much criminal activities there are in a supposedly "peaceful" and "safe" setting.
• More like underfunded in national defense and thus lack the capability to stir any up
• Maybe in the big metro urban centres, you'd be surprised how a visible minority still gets those subtle 1950s-esque attitude around here by the older folks.
• True
• Get out more often and you'll be surprised at the places where we get treated like royalty, everyone loves a stereotypical Canuck. Holland & Japan comes to mind personally.
• Any first world country should have this as a basic...are you saying this is exclusively Canadian? (I might be misinterpreting you here)

Let's be honest... Canada in general does have a pretty safe setting compared to a lot of other countries. I think that whenever a crime happens in Canada, a typical person would be more appalled then one say.... in the United States. How many murders per capita between the two countries? Not even comparable. Although I know that this statistic is a direct result of firearm control, but the difference exists regardless.

In my opinion, I think the government's underfunding of national defense isn't necessarily such a bad thing. Obviously it could be a major issue, but if your not at war with anyone that funding can be used in other areas to enhance our society's standard of living, then why bother? In Africa, many countries that are presumed to be poor are spending over half of their budget on their militaries and considering the massive amount of problems in the region- it just doesn't seem to make sense from an outsider.

I agree with your point about Canadians generally being liked. It's something everybody should be quite proud of.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Maybe in the big metro urban centres, you'd be surprised how a visible minority still gets those subtle 1950s-esque attitude around here by the older folks.

Have had this new white girlfriend for a couple of months now, and it's amazing how many "looks" we get as an inter-racial couple. Mostly from middle aged women.

Add to that the way I got shoved out of line at The Roadhouse last night by some ****in bouncer and I can't say this city is feeling too tolerant lately.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by fotze

I stilll want to see my dream reality show come to fruition.

Follow a small asian guy who who is a 9th degree black belt, around to nightclubs around the world as he picks fights with bouncers and end up beating them to within an inch of their lives. Watch big dumbass bouncers cough up blood and cry as they beg for their lives.

While I agree about the racism stuff, A reasonably tough big caucasian with experience in street fighting, (which most bouncers have) will take out any black belt that is 5'8" 140lbs. sorry, but those the facts.

[White Doors]

haha

well Bruce Lee was an exception to the rule.. but still can't see him taking on a 280lb solid bouncer..

[Vulcan]

I was married to a non white woman for a number of years and at first I didn't aknowledge or believe any racism was happening, expecially from people I thought were pretty cool. I started to learn differently though and than I started to look out for it. This is also a bad idea. Bottom line is, racism is one ugly side of life that I can do without.

[TheCommodoreAfro]

The truth is that in the global scheme of things, being "Canadian" is more of an ideal than a citizenship.
Most of the people that I know here have only a vague idea of what Canada is about. Here goes:
- Anne of Greene Gables
- Trees, forests and mountains (think Banff)
- waterfalls
- winter
- Maple Syrup and Salmon (not together, but are surprised that they can be cooked together)
- Space
- Northern Lights
- Safe (compared with the 'states)
- Winter Sports

That's the view from Japan, anyhow. Socially and morally, we make no difference here. In the grand scheme of things, and from other people I work with/talk to I think we ring more clearly with the middle powers of Europe and are viewed in a very simplistic way as the largest blue state if we were to ever merge with the USA. For the most part, Canada is a nebulous state, not always in mind but never in the way.

I like living here without any pre-programmed attitude being struck against me though, so I enjoy it that way.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by White Doors

haha

well Bruce Lee was an exception to the rule.. but still can't see him taking on a 280lb solid bouncer..

You are a fool. Just because a guy is "solid" with "street fighting experience" does not make him invincible. Bruce Lee could cream your average fighter, regardless of size. Why? The guy had nearly super human strength for his size, speed and flexibility were second to none, and he was very resourceful. Your average bouncer is a thug at worst, and just a big nice guy trying to make a little cash on the side at best.

Then again, your average black belt is not comfortable outside of regimented fighting. I'd say your average black belt would get a few good shots in but would lose to your average bouncer.

Bruce Lee was not your average black belt and don't ever make that mistake ever again.

[Moderator]

Lanny and Hoz. Take it up via PM. If either of you post again with that kind of language and/or name calling you will be taking a break from CP for a while.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Don't you worry, jackass, I will be more than willing to share my contempt for their GOVERNMENT and for their HUBRIS and for their IGNORANCE of the world around them. I will be more than willing to explain how their actions of the past two elections has the majority of the world distancing themselves from America, when at one horrific moment, we were ALL Americans. I have watched this country **** opportunity after opportunity, to be the good guy and ride in on a white charger to save the save the day, and instead be selfish and short-sighted. America lacks big thinkers with long term objectives. They look no further than their feet and where they may make a buck. They don't care for the future and it shows in their actions (medicare, social security, the environment, the deficit, etc.). America needs new leadership that thinks on a global scale without profit entering into the equation. There is a time when you have to invest in the future, and for the America and the world, that time is now. That is what I will share with these graduates.

You summed up my feelings about Americans pretty well here, especially the bold.

As far as what I think of myself as a Canadian... I feel like we are less individualistic than most populations, and do care about our fellow countrymen enough to try and care for them. We are somewhat tolerant but there are definitely dirty little secrets everywhere (like the way aboriginals are treated in this country), and the big cities are starting to get problems they're not used to dealing with (like gangs, more violence).

This is a tough subject and requires more thought than I can offer right now...

[Sparks]

If you spend some time in the USA, even on holidays, I think you notice the differences much more (unless you want to believe there aren't any). For one thing, Canadians are generally more reserved, particularly between people who don't know each other well. Americans seem to be more immediately friendly and talkative, and will get in your face and blab away about themselves, or whatever. It's fun and refreshing, but it can sometimes feel uncomfortable if you're used to living in Canada. How we talk and act between strangers seems to be somewhere between the UK and the USA. Much warmer than the UK, but not nearly as intimate as the States. Of course, there are differences between regions in Canada and between regions in the USA - but certainly as a guy who has lived in (mostly) Alberta and (only for a bit) BC, I've noticed it a lot. edit: I'm talking about between... say a cashier and a customer at a store, for example.

That only makes sense, though. The US is big, flashy, noisy - when they put on a show, it's way over the top. They like to be number one and they eagerly show it. Canadians, on the other hand, are more humble, perhaps because we know how it feels to be next to a country which is, unabashedly, flamboyantly, number one. (I should note that by "number one", I am talking in terms of influence, power, and $$)

But we don't get lost in ourselves nearly as much. We have a more international perspective - nowhere is this more evident than in our news programs, which are very different from American ones. We are more tolerant of difference of opinion and culture, not wanting to offend anyone or step on anyone's toes. It's hilarious sometimes. I think we are obviously more "left-wing" when it comes to issues like health care, education, social programs, foreign policy, etc. It's debatable whether our system works better (eg. taxes), but I think it reflects a genuine value - we feel we have a responsibility to directly help out the little guy.

I could go on and on but this post is going to get ridiculously long. I love our country, flaws and all. It's a good work in progress. You've got to love it: getting the Tim Hortons coffee in the morning, complaining about the weather, playing and watching hockey, skiing and hiking in the beautiful rockies, sailing on the coast, Montreal, Quebec City, poutine, the search for national identity, and on and on and on and on. We're so lucky we don't even know it.

Remember that contest to find a Canadian version of "As American as apple pie?" The winner was "As Canadian... as possible, under the circumstances." Brilliant!

edit: took out a paragraph of rambling