[PGT] Snowballing in Detroit: Flames win 4-1 - Page 13 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bertuzzied · 02-06-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Thanks, Babcock is right Wideman does add a tonne in terms of moving the puck from the defensive end and the rest of the defence definitely have been playing better from a puck moving perspective. I will just wait until the end of the year to determine whether the Flames are a better team or not. Although I fully expect Bertuzzied to come in here full of mocking glee each and every time the Flames win a game, unfortunately that has only been twice so far this year.

If you can't see it you'll never see it. I was very happy after the Chicago game.

Why can't you just admit Brent Sutter is a sucky NHL coach. The Oilers didn't even want him.

hahaha and nice of you not giving Hartley any credit of slotting Butler into the 6-7 dman that he really is and making Bouwmeester look like an NHL dman again.

EddyBeers · 02-06-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

If you can't see it you'll never see it. I was very happy after the Chicago game.

Why can't you just admit Brent Sutter is a sucky NHL coach. The Oilers didn't even want him.

hahaha and nice of you not giving Hartley any credit of slotting Butler into the 6-7 dman that he really is and making Bouwmeester look like an NHL dman again.

A couple points:

1) I have never said that Hartley was a poor coach, I have said that Sutter was a good coach. You have maintained that Sutter is a "sucky" coach.

2) I have maintained that Sutter took a team that should have finished 12th and dragged them up to finishing 9th.

3) Others have maintained that Sutter took a better team and made them worse. This has never been quantified in anyway, but let us say that he took a 6th place team and dragged them down to 9th.

4) Most fans agree that on paper this team is at worse on par talent wise with last year, perhaps slightly better. Therefore it should be a fairly easy comparison between the two teams.

It seems obvious to me, logically, that if Sutter is a "sucky" coach, that an average coach should be able to get this team into the playoffs and a good coach should be able to get them home ice advantage in the playoffs. An equally sucky coach to Sutter should get them 9th place, and an inferior coach would be below 9th place. This would have to be the logic for someone who thinks that Sutter was a terrible coach.

I personally think that is unfair to Hartley as I think Sutter was a good coach, Bob Hartley could very well be a good coach and get this team to 9th place as well. If he was even an average coach I would imagine that this team should finish around 12th.

Phanuthier · 02-06-2013, 11:18 AM

^ Either way, I still got a bet with Bertuzzied for the Flames being below 90 pts this season.

EddyBeers · 02-06-2013, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

^ Either way, I still got a bet with Bertuzzied for the Flames being below 90 pts this season.

Slow start killed him on that bet, now he is drawing dead 7 games into the season.

getbak · 02-06-2013, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

^ Either way, I still got a bet with Bertuzzied for the Flames being below 90 pts this season.

Is that prorated to the shorter season? Otherwise, it's already been won.

If they won every game from here out, they'd end up with 88.

Phanuthier · 02-06-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Slow start killed him on that bet, now he is drawing dead 7 games into the season.

I think I've mathematically won that bet already. Easiest bet I've ever made!

Phanuthier · 02-06-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getbak

Is that prorated to the shorter season? Otherwise, it's already been won.

If they won every game from here out, they'd end up with 88.

Nope, didn't specify conditions. I contemplated it, in case the Flames signed Parise/Suter, but it was unconditional. Pretty awesome!

Bet was for the money to go to charity though.

GirlySports · 02-06-2013, 11:24 AM

Sutter cannot coach properly. Bouwmeester and Butler together all season, THE ENTIRE SEASON!

EddyBeers · 02-06-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Sutter cannot coach properly. Bouwmeester and Butler together all season, THE ENTIRE SEASON!

Well the litmus test for any coach is definitely whether Bouwmeester is finally playing at the level his contract dictates he should play at. Wins and losses are mere window dressing compared to that litmus test.

clancy · 02-06-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

They also aren't just dumping the puck up the same side boards into the neutral zone once they gain possession. The offside winger has clearance to go once they have the puck, which forces the opponent to fall back and defend. Hartley has it correct, the best way to generate offensive chances and limit defensive breakdowns is from the center of the ice in the neutral zone.

IMO they arent doing that as much because they arent standing still without the puck. They are moving their feet and putting themselves in good positions to accept a pass. Also see the stretch pass much more often. While it rarely works, it does back off the oppositions pressure in your own end, opening up ice etc.
I must say I was a skeptic when Hartley said he was going to bring an uptempo game. Didnt think we had the line up to execute it. I love watching this team more than I have in the last 5+ seasons. While they scored a lot under Keenan, their d structure, effort etc was so crappy that no lead was safe. It was inconsistent pond hockey, no accountability etc. Not so with this team.

Roof-Daddy · 02-06-2013, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Well the litmus test for any coach is definitely whether Bouwmeester is finally playing at the level his contract dictates he should play at. Wins and losses are mere window dressing compared to that litmus test.

I think you are just being a tad stubborn now (understandable, since Bertuzzied called you out like that), because if you've been watching the games, I know you see a much different/better team so far under Hartley, then we ever saw with Brent coaching them.......wins and losses not withstanding.

Bertuzzied · 02-06-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

^ Either way, I still got a bet with Bertuzzied for the Flames being below 90 pts this season.

wow you must be hurting for money.

I told you prorated and the bets still on. Not sure if you can afford it or not though.... hehehe

GirlySports · 02-06-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Well the litmus test for any coach is definitely whether Bouwmeester is finally playing at the level his contract dictates he should play at. Wins and losses are mere window dressing compared to that litmus test.

(Ir)regardless of who Bouwmeester is, a coach can't partner a guy who plays nearly 30 minutes with a guy who plays barely 20. Sutter made Butter play 1st pairing minutes which is unfair to him and since he can't handle it, Bouwmeester has to cover him which takes away from his game. It's a double whammie. You can see since both Bouw and Gio are capable 1st pairing D, they can take chances knowing the other can cover.

The pairings now make sense

Bouw-Gio 25 minute guys
Wideman-Brodie 21 minute guys
Smulter 16 minute guys.

Bertuzzied · 02-06-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getbak

Is that prorated to the shorter season? Otherwise, it's already been won.

If they won every game from here out, they'd end up with 88.

Of course it's pro-rated. Not that him or fanin80 wants to admit that. hahaha.

clancy · 02-06-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames89;4056719[B

]Butler has seen a massive improvement the last two games. I am not sure what he did after the debacle last week.[/B]

Bouwmeester is playing amazing. He is skating driven and actually looks somewhat surly. Shocking.

Wideman is RAPIDLY becoming my new favorite player on the team. The pairing with him and Brodie is looking better and better every game.

Stajan may have seen the most improvement this season. He is all over the ice and working hard.

Hudler is one of the smartest players I have had the experience of watching

Tanguay is also playing larger than he has in the past. A notable line last night from Simmer, was that he is blending well as a center.

I think Hartley did an amazing thing when he didnt sit Butler after his late first period mistake against the Avs. He expression on his face after the puck went into the net said it all.
I know I was shocked that he made it into the line up against the Hawks. He probably was expecting to be the odd man out. Maybe what he needed was to know his coach beleived in him. Mistakes happen, just give the effort and you will play..beleive in yourself because the coaches and your teammates do etc etc.

Flash Walken · 02-06-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

(Ir)regardless of who Bouwmeester is, a coach can't partner a guy who plays nearly 30 minutes with a guy who plays barely 20. Sutter made Butter play 1st pairing minutes which is unfair to him and since he can't handle it, Bouwmeester has to cover him which takes away from his game. It's a double whammie. You can see since both Bouw and Gio are capable 1st pairing D, they can take chances knowing the other can cover.

The pairings now make sense

Bouw-Gio 25 minute guys
Wideman-Brodie 21 minute guys
Smulter 16 minute guys.

Just so it's out there, Hartley also has paired Butler and Bouwmeester together this season.

SuperMatt18 · 02-06-2013, 11:43 AM

Lost the last couple weeks is how well Tanguay has adapted to center ice over the last couple games.

Really am starting to like him in the center of the ice.

Bertuzzied · 02-06-2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Just so it's out there, Hartley also has paired Butler and Bouwmeester together this season.

and then realized it was a horrendous mistake and promptly benched Butler for 2 games.

Sutter would have just kept at 'er.

MrMastodonFarm · 02-06-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Just so it's out there, Hartley also has paired Butler and Bouwmeester together this season.

Yeah but it seems more situational then wanting them to be a pairing. Coming off a PP/PK, guys maybe tired, switching up etc... hasn't been any long length of time really.

Goodlad · 02-06-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clancy

I think Hartley did an amazing thing when he didnt sit Butler after his late first period mistake against the Avs. He expression on his face after the puck went into the net said it all.
I know I was shocked that he made it into the line up against the Hawks. He probably was expecting to be the odd man out. Maybe what he needed was to know his coach beleived in him. Mistakes happen, just give the effort and you will play..beleive in yourself because the coaches and your teammates do etc etc.

And he had one of his better performances in a Flames jersey in that Chicago game. Someone mentioned it in another thread, but one of the more noticeable differences between Hartley and Sutter is the team seems less wary of taking chances this season. Under Sutter if a player made a mistake they knew that they were going to get reamed by the coach, and possibly stapled to the bench their next few shifts. Hartley seems more prone to letting players recover from their mistakes and prove they can learn from them. The attitude and atmosphere around the team so far is much improved over Sutter's tenure.