Whats your stance on gun control ?

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

It's easy for Canadians to say to Americans, just be like us and get rid of the guns, but we haven't had 200 years of the "right to bear arms" mindset, we have not suffered a civil war, we don't have the large Black American ghetto problem, the disparity in wealth between the rich and poor is not as severe, we are blessed with way more natural resources.

At the same time we sell 85% of our goods to them, we use their money and expertise to help us develop our resources, we enjoy their technology and research and development, we depend on them for our protection.

Yeah no. I'm good.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Azure

The reason the black american ghetto problem has to do with 'gun laws' is because in a lot of cities, up to 75% of the 'crime' is committed by minorities, with African American making up a large portion of those numbers.

It also equals to 75% of gun crime.

The reason why is pretty simple. Poverty, lack of proper welfare, unemployment, etc, etc. Fix those problems, and you fix your gun crime problem.

Of course the way to fix it is to end the war on drugs, but hey....lets all ignore examples from countries like Portugal who have decriminalized drugs which has resulted in lower drug use and less crime. Banning everything is the answer!

You've mentioned the racial disparity in crime now a few times, so how about, if they only allow white people to have firearms. Would that be better for you?

[Azure]

Is that an actual question or are you just trolling again?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Azure

The reason the black american ghetto problem has to do with 'gun laws' is because in a lot of cities, up to 75% of the 'crime' is committed by minorities, with African American making up a large portion of those numbers.

It also equals to 75% of gun crime.

The reason why is pretty simple. Poverty, lack of proper welfare, unemployment, etc, etc. Fix those problems, and you fix your gun crime problem.

Of course the way to fix it is to end the war on drugs, but hey....lets all ignore examples from countries like Portugal who have decriminalized drugs which has resulted in lower drug use and less crime. Banning everything is the answer!

Lets blame every social problem that causes gun crimes on anything but the guns

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Is that an actual question or are you just trolling again?

Actual question, you've brought it up at least twice now in this thread, so it is obviously a concern to you.

[Azure]

Question is mind-boggling.

There is racial disparity in crime throughout the US. What the bloody hell does that have to do with only white people having guns? The problem is that minorities are often stuck in a cycle of violence. Has nothing to do with 'guns.'

If you get could get past your irrational hatred of firearms you'd see that.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Question is mind-boggling.

There is racial disparity in crime throughout the US. What the bloody hell does that have to do with only white people having guns? The problem is that minorities are often stuck in a cycle of violence. Has nothing to do with 'guns.'

If you get could get past your irrational hatred of firearms you'd see that.

Guns are expressly designed for killing people, there is nothing irrational about hating them.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Good thing there are no gun-related murders in countries with gun control.

Oh wait...

If something happens in the US, teh interwebz is full of it and crusaders in their shiny armor have an axe to grind.

If the same thing happens in Bulgaria or China no one tweets that gun control kills people.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Good thing there are no gun-related murders in countries with gun control.

Oh wait...

If something happens in the US, teh interwebz is full of it and crusaders in their shiny armor have an axe to grind.

If the same thing happens in Bulgaria or China no one tweets that gun control kills people.

Yes because it is gun control and not gun elimination. So by your logic because we cannot eliminate gun deaths we shouldn't control guns?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Good thing there are no gun-related murders in countries with gun control.

Oh wait...

If something happens in the US, teh interwebz is full of it and crusaders in their shiny armor have an axe to grind.

If the same thing happens in Bulgaria or China no one tweets that gun control kills people.

Actually your argument doesn't make sense. The difference is on the same day that the US had the shootings in Newton the Chinese had an attack on one of their schools. US ended up with 20+ dead kids, China had 20+ slightly knifed wounded kids with NO deaths.

Difference was in China they had effect gun control and the crazies didn't get to the guns in that case. That's why no one tweeting about gun control. It's mostly effective and sure, it might not get rid of all gun violence but it's been statistically proven to limit it in countries that have implemented it.

Sure there are a lot of guns in circulation in the US. There used to be 10 guns for every 100 people in the UK, number has dropped to 6.7 for every 100 and the death rates have dropped too. If you got some of the 88 guns/100 people in the states out of people's hands it'll probably have a similar effect. Implementing gun control is not going to take guns away from everyone.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Question is mind-boggling.

There is racial disparity in crime throughout the US. What the bloody hell does that have to do with only white people having guns? The problem is that minorities are often stuck in a cycle of violence. Has nothing to do with 'guns.'

If you get could get past your irrational hatred of firearms you'd see that.

If you have a large number of people stuck in a cycle of violence logic dictates you don't give them access to guns!

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Azure

If you get could get past your irrational hatred of firearms you'd see that.

God that's cliche.

I hate seeing innocent people dieing because they are shot by guns and I have an irrational hatred of guns?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Actually your argument doesn't make sense. The difference is on the same day that the US had the shootings in Newton the Chinese had an attack on one of their schools. US ended up with 20+ dead kids, China had 20+ slightly knifed wounded kids with NO deaths.

Difference was in China they had effect gun control and the crazies didn't get to the guns in that case. That's why no one tweeting about gun control. It's mostly effective and sure, it might not get rid of all gun violence but it's been statistically proven to limit it in countries that have implemented it.

Sure there are a lot of guns in circulation in the US. There used to be 10 guns for every 100 people in the UK, number has dropped to 6.7 for every 100 and the death rates have dropped too. If you got some of the 88 guns/100 people in the states out of people's hands it'll probably have a similar effect. Implementing gun control is not going to take guns away from everyone.

Of course I'm going to believe statistics coming from China. Right.

Numbers of guns in circulation are estimates at best, pulled out of thin air at worst.

There's a semi-auto in almost every household in Switzerland yet their gun-related crime rate is lower than in many countries with gun restrictions.

Statistics rarely paint a full picture.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If you have a large number of people stuck in a cycle of violence logic dictates you don't give them access to guns!

Just like you don't give them access to drugs, amirite?

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

There's a semi-auto in almost every household in Switzerland yet their gun-related crime rate is lower than in many countries with gun restrictions.

Statistics rarely paint a full picture.

A good chunk of those rifles are government issued to the citizens of Switzerland who are part of the Swiss Army, which is basically a citizen militia. As such the citizens who have these rifles at home are subject to government screening when it comes to being issued them, annual government training in proper use, maintenance and storage and appropriate punishment for any violations, etc.

Very different than in the USA IMO.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Of course I'm going to believe statistics coming from China. Right.

There's a semi-auto in almost every household in Switzerland yet their gun-related crime rate is lower than in many countries with gun restrictions.

Statistics rarely paint a full picture.

So you believe what you've heard about Switzerland but not what you hear about China. Maybe you believe what you choose to believe.

As far as Switzerland goes...

Does everyone with a gun have mandatory 2 years service in the military, where their mental state is screened before they are handed a gun.

Does CH have CCW?

Can you have a semi-auto in CH without a license?

Can you buy a semi-auto in CH from anyone at a gun show with no documentation?

Can you buy unlimited ammunition online or at Walmart for your semi-auto in CH?

In CH, are people allowed to have an unlimited number of guns?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If you have a large number of people stuck in a cycle of violence logic dictates you don't give them access to guns!

And how are you going to take away their access? By banning them? Drugs are banned, and they still have access to them.

In fact, the war on drugs is the REASON for many of the problems that lead to gun crime.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

A good chunk of those rifles are government issued to the citizens of Switzerland who are part of the Swiss Army, which is basically a citizen militia. As such the citizens who have these rifles at home are subject to government screening when it comes to being issued them, annual government training in proper use, maintenance and storage and appropriate punishment for any violations, etc.

Very different than in the USA IMO.

Of course, so these people are trained to used them, unlike your average lunatic who wouldn't know how to reload his gun.

Yet, use guns against each other at rate lower than in many gun-restricted nations.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So you believe what you've heard about Switzerland but not what you hear about China. Maybe you believe what you choose to believe.

As far as Switzerland goes...

Does everyone with a gun have mandatory 2 years service in the military, where their mental state is screened before they are handed a gun.

Does CH have CCW?

Can you have a semi-auto in CH without a license?

Can you buy a semi-auto in CH from anyone at a gun show with no documentation?

Can you buy unlimited ammunition online or at Walmart for your semi-auto in CH?

In CH, are people allowed to have an unlimited number of guns?

I wouldn't necessarily believe them either, but I definitely don't believe anything that's coming out of a propaganda-riddled country.

BTW I'm not against mental/background checks, in fact I think they should be compulsory even when it comes to issuing driver's licenses.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Of course, so these people are trained to used them, unlike your average lunatic who wouldn't know how to reload his gun.

Yet, use guns against each other at rate lower than in many gun-restricted nations.

Ah okay, I think I mis-read your post a bit. I tend to see things like proper training, better background checks, etc, as forms of gun-restriction that could go along with limitations or bans on the purchase of certain firearms as part of an overall solution to gun control. So I'd agree that, say, having 100 000 of the same type of weapon in the homes of individuals who were properly trained and were properly screened is generally better than simply trying to severely limit or ban the purchase of the same weapon.

I should add though that as we get into the weapons with higher rates of fire, bigger caliber of ammo, magazine sizes, etc (such as what we saw in Newton) eventually simply not having a good enough reason to own such a weapon becomes a good enough reason for me to prevent ownership. You kind of reach a point where hunting, target practice and/or self-protection get out weighed by the risk to public safety of simply having such weapons, ammo, etc, so easily available. This is really where much of the gun control debate lies for me.

You also reach a point where, as far as I'm concerned, some of these individuals that are so hell bent on having access to the more "intense" weapons can go join the military and use them for their intended purpose against their intended targets. At least they'll be making themselves useful at the same time.