[PGT] Flames fall 3-2 in shootout to Chicago.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

It seems to be the standard response for fans of bad teams.

It was the main point of Oiler fans for the past 3-5 years while their team was garbage that they were "much happier" watching the Oilers play "exciting" and lose than watch a boring team like Nashville or Phoenix even though they made play-offs.

A lot of Flames fans are transitioning to the same mentality that Oiler fans had during their crap years (outside of the cheering for last place) so not too surprising that the "excitement" factor is now being overblown.

What a load of absolute garbage to try and compare this year's Flames team with the Oilers of the last three years.

They were one of the worst teams in history. They didn't even try to win. Everyone knew they sucked. The only thing fans could extract from the games was "well, at least they are becoming more exciting". It was either that or quit on the team.

If you watched last night and you saw the 2010 Oilers, all I can say is good luck to you.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Of course you are allowed to enjoy whatever you like.

I just don´t really see the "being fan of a team" part of it if you care about being entertained more than if your team wins or loses.

Why are you putting words in my mouth. I haven't given any indication on what I care more about in my posts. You are just making assumptions, likely because you need to put the world into black and white constructs or your head might explode I guess. Truth be told, I'm willing to bet my enjoyment of being a fan of the team is some combination of them winning and be entertaining, with a heavier weighting to winning, winning is always fun.

But to try and simply this for you, I'll break it down into 4 overly simple outcomes in rank order of desirability:

1) Winning while playing entertaining hockey.
2) winning while playing boring hockey
3) Losing while playing entertaining hockey
4) Losing while playing boring hockey.

Unfortunately the Flames have done a lot of losing the past few years. IMO, last year, much of that losing fell into bucket 4, while this year it seems to be more in bucket 3. Simply a comment that its more fun to watch now, I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that. Agreed its not the ideal outcome, but I never said it was.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don´t get this at all, how can anyone be entertained by losses is beyond me. That just sounds like a losing attitude.

A loss is a loss, not matter if you play under a Sutter defensive minded, boring concept or a more offensively entertaining system like Hartley´s.

Yes a loss is a loss.

However, sports is entertainment. Period.

Of course we all want our favorite team to win every game and win the cup every spring.

I would also like to be able to fart $100 bills out my arse. But that is now how life works.

With respect to our favorite teams - that we spend a lot of money to watch - more effort, and more entertainment, are infinitely better than less of each.

Would I take boring hockey and a cup? Yes. But winning is also entertaining.

Every team can't win every game. So entertainment must also come from excitement and effort.

Your post completely misses that point.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What a load of absolute garbage to try and compare this year's Flames team with the Oilers of the last three years.

They were one of the worst teams in history. They didn't even try to win. Everyone knew they sucked. The only thing fans could extract from the games was "well, at least they are becoming more exciting". It was either that or quit on the team.

If you watched last night and you saw the 2010 Oilers, all I can say is good luck to you.

Agreed, I'm way to close in age to our players on the ice to have seen the 2010 Oilers out there last night

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What a load of absolute garbage to try and compare this year's Flames team with the Oilers of the last three years.

They were one of the worst teams in history. They didn't even try to win. Everyone knew they sucked. The only thing fans could extract from the games was "well, at least they are becoming more exciting". It was either that or quit on the team.

If you watched last night and you saw the 2010 Oilers, all I can say is good luck to you.

When did I say the teams were the same?

The situation of teams out of the play-offs and not close to contending and having old declinging rosters is what is the same. The same excuses were made for the Oilers as there team fell into last place are the same being made now.

Overrating mediocre players, pumping up new additions and looking at mediocre prospects was the Oiler fan go to's for the past 5 years (note how I include the years prior to 30,30,29?)

Sure the Flames haven't been as bad as the Oilers were at their worse but looking at the roster and the results it isn't hard to see the Flames could end up there as soon as this year.

As for the team last night I saw a team play okay against a team that was absolutely gassed and unable to skate and lose. I realize many fans want to use this as some sort of sign that good things are ahead but to me it seems like a sign that even when the other team is at 40% the Flames aren't able to beat them and that is a scary thought.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Unfortunately the Flames have done a lot of losing the past few years. IMO, last year, much of that losing fell into bucket 4, while this year it seems to be more in bucket 3. Simply a comment that its more fun to watch now, I'm not sure what's hard to understand about that. Agreed its not the ideal outcome, but I never said it was.

Fair enough to have that assessment and I know many will disagree but outside of maybe last night this year seems to be no better in terms of entertainment than the last 3 years. (Although I didn't go to the Oilers game)

The SJ, Anaheim and Colorado game were played so poorly by the Flames I find it hard to find any more entertainment in them than I have in the games the past 3 years. But I also didn't think Sutter was the devil or his top 5 GF team was that awful to watch.

[browna]

As far as Iginla on the breakaway, Emery showed him the fivehole and barely closed it in time....it was certainly there as he beared down, but those misses look worse when the don't go in because it appears he just shoot it into pads.

And not sure if the TV replay picked it up, but on the 2 on 1 when Giordano botched the play at the point in the third, Iginla had the gas pedal hammered down to catch up to the open man and made up 10 feet on him, before Bouwmeester dived to make the pass save...haven't seen him skate that hard in a long time.

He still has the control of the puck down low and is command of the offensive zone. However, with Tanguay showing all to obvious so far that he's looking for Iginla almost exclusively, Iginla's still getting special treatment with the Flames having the puck in the offensive zone, and can't get enough time and space to get that shot away....as he has for the past 10 years.

In general, his points don't show it, and eventually they have to pick up clearly to make a difference, but, like the rest of the team, he looks better effort wise and intangible wise then his stats show.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes a loss is a loss.

However, sports is entertainment. Period.

Of course we all want our favorite team to win every game and win the cup every spring.

I would also like to be able to fart $100 bills out my arse. But that is now how life works.

With respect to our favorite teams - that we spend a lot of money to watch - more effort, and more entertainment, are infinitely better than less of each.

Would I take boring hockey and a cup? Yes. But winning is also entertaining.

Every team can't win every game. So entertainment must also come from excitement and effort.

Your post completely misses that point.

Wow.. ok. Well we just then complete disagree. I guess it comes from my sporting background and being competitive in anything pretty much I do. I just hate losing- and rather than being entertained by the team´s completely incompetent players not being able to score empty netters and win the game it just made me gringe. Pretty much pathetic how they couldn´t put the game away.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

When did I say the teams were the same?

The situation of teams out of the play-offs and not close to contending and having old declinging rosters is what is the same. The same excuses were made for the Oilers as there team fell into last place are the same being made now.

Overrating mediocre players, pumping up new additions and looking at mediocre prospects was the Oiler fan go to's for the past 5 years (note how I include the years prior to 30,30,29?)

Sure the Flames haven't been as bad as the Oilers were at their worse but looking at the roster and the results it isn't hard to see the Flames could end up there as soon as this year.

As for the team last night I saw a team play okay against a team that was absolutely gassed and unable to skate and lose. I realize many fans want to use this as some sort of sign that good things are ahead but to me it seems like a sign that even when the other team is at 40% the Flames aren't able to beat them and that is a scary thought.

You're moving the target. Now you're talking about the Oilers of 5 years ago. They sucked, but fans weren't saying they were exciting. Fans were saying they sucked. Therefrain of 'at least they're exciting' has only been in the last two years.

All of this illustrates that there is no comparison. But I know that you'll move the goalposts again in another attempt to show a parallel anyway.

[Flames_Gimp]

if they play like that, i don't care if they lose every game! what a game!

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're moving the target. Now you're talking about the Oilers of 5 years ago. They sucked, but fans weren't saying they were exciting. Fans were saying they sucked. Therefrain of 'at least they're exciting' has only been in the last two years.

All of this illustrates that there is no comparison. But I know that you'll move the goalposts again in another attempt to show a parallel anyway.

I said the last 3-5 years in my initial post. How is that moving the goalposts?

And Oiler fans were talking about how exciting their team was with Gagner and MPS coming into the team which was certainly more than the last two years.

Throughout the whole sucking period Oiler fans have maintained their team was better than their results (sound familiar?), more excting than boring Calgary, Phoenix, Nashville (again sounds like a lot of commments this year) and that new additions like Souray, Grebeshkov, Gilbert, O'Sullivan etc. were just what the team needed to help turn it around.

Feel free to make up points again to avoid the actual issues though.

[ComixZone]

...sad state of affairs when fans just spend time bickering about the amount of suckitude that the local sports club displays.

We're to commend a team for putting in a solid effort? Why? Solid efforts should be the norm, not some special accomplishment. "Oh hey bud, I know you skipped school Monday-Thursday, but good job showing up for the test on Friday! I mean...yeah, you got a 13% on it - but you showed up! Good on ya!"

...this organizations awful situation is lowering the expectations of the fans, and that's not fair. Massive Incompetence for years doesn't make "adequate" an acceptable level of performance (and losing a game, no matter how well you played isn't "adequate", it's still inadequate, just with a shiny bow ontop).

This team sucks. It does. I will continue to cheer them on, and I'll still acknowledge the positives that occur. Hudler, Cervenka and Wideman all look like solid additions to the team going forward. The problems with the team are still present (particularly at the center ice position - which needs to be addressed, seeing as you can't win anything meaningful in this league without top-end centers)...but I in now way take any comfort in seeing a professional sports team put in a solid effort and congratulate them for it. That should be an every night occurrence.

[Enoch Root]

To those that keep saying the Hawks were totally gassed last night, has it ocurred to any of you that the reason they were gassed was that the Flames skated them into the ground?

Every team is playing 3 games in 4 nights on a regular basis. It is not unusual. But of course, with Flames fans, well the Flames should beat them 10-0 or the Flames suck.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To those that keep saying the Hawks were totally gassed last night, has it ocurred to any of you that the reason they were gassed was that the Flames skated them into the ground?

Every team is playing 3 games in 4 nights on a regular basis. It is not unusual. But of course, with Flames fans, well the Flames should beat them 10-0 or the Flames suck.

Considering they look gassed at the start of the game it seems it would be tough to blame it on the Flames, but perhaps they had a joint practice earlier in the day that the Flames really tired the Hawks out in?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

Considering they look gassed at the start of the game it seems it would be tough to blame it on the Flames, but perhaps they had a joint practice earlier in the day that the Flames really tired the Hawks out in?

What? The Hawks didn't practice, but you know that and you're just trolling.

As for them looking gassed in the 1st, we will all see what we want to see, I guess.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What? The Hawks didn't practice, but you know that and you're just trolling.

As for them looking gassed in the 1st, we will all see what we want to see, I guess.

Some of us see a team that played 3 in 4 nights, didn't have a game-day skate and got into Calgary at 3am, missing their second line centre.

They looked more tired than the Avs did, playing their 3rd in four nights, getting in at 2 am, with their backup goalie, missing their second line centre and first line lw.

Seeing what we want to see seems to be the crux of the issue, I guess.

Some see a team with 1 win after 6 home games, but that's just bad luck?

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by moon

Considering they look gassed at the start of the game it seems it would be tough to blame it on the Flames, but perhaps they had a joint practice earlier in the day that the Flames really tired the Hawks out in?

They did not look gassed in the first period. Best example was how they handled the Calgary powerplay in the 1st compared to the third. In the first they were actively pursuing the puck, making sure Calgary had no room to move the puck through the neutral zone, basically out-skating the opposition to ensure Calgary couldn't set up their powerplay. Skip to the third period, they were playing much more passive on the PK, just trying to contain shots to the outside and protecting the front of the net instead of actively pursuing.

They got gassed as the game went on. There is the factor of 3 games in 4 nights, but that doesn't usually affect teams this early in the season. So you have to conclude that Calgary did wear Chicago down throughout the game by having a constant forecheck and making the Hawks chase down pucks all game.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

To those that keep saying the Hawks were totally gassed last night, has it ocurred to any of you that the reason they were gassed was that the Flames skated them into the ground?

You gotta be kidding.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Some of us see a team that played 3 in 4 nights, didn't have a game-day skate and got into Calgary at 3am, missing their second line centre.

They looked more tired than the Avs did, playing their 3rd in four nights, getting in at 2 am, with their backup goalie, missing their second line centre and first line lw.

Seeing what we want to see seems to be the crux of the issue, I guess.

Some see a team with 1 win after 6 home games, but that's just bad luck?

Therefore the Hawks must have been tired?

Way to insult the Flames as a way to try and substantiate your argument.

Bottom line is there are tough spots in the schedule. The Flames made them pay by skating them into the ground. But for some fans, the Flames can only suck and therefore the Hawks must not have been trying / were too tired to compete.

The Hawks fans sitting in front of me felt the Flames wore them out. But there are a lot of Flames fans who are incapable of granting the Flames that fact.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Therefore the Hawks must have been tired?

Way to insult the Flames as a way to try and substantiate your argument.

Bottom line is there are tough spots in the schedule. The Flames made them pay by skating them into the ground. But for some fans, the Flames can only suck and therefore the Hawks must not have been trying / were too tired to compete.

The Hawks fans sitting in front of me felt the Flames wore them out. But there are a lot of Flames fans who are incapable of granting the Flames that fact.

I bet you think that strippers are really into to you too, especially if guy sitting in front of also agrees that she's into it