[PGT] Flames lose 6-3 vs Avs

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Cammalleri for a 1st and a prospect? This is a guy most Flames fans want in the press box who comes with a $7 million price tag. He only returned Rene Bourque a year ago, I don't see what he's done since then to drastically inflate his value.

Teams aren't going to be throwing around 1st round picks or grade A prospects like they're candy. In the last 4 trade deadlines there have been only three 1st round picks moved and virtually no good prospects have been traded for rentals. Iginla will return some good assets but those other guys aren't going to bring a ton back in return. Collectively they could bring in a decent quantity of assets, but any thoughts of 4+ 1st round picks is just dreaming.

I think you're right, except that I also think kipper has significant value especially in light of his contract situation.

The market for defenders will always be high, and I would look to move both bouwmeester and giordano if there was significant interest. Vancouver is an example of the type of team that cammelleri has lots of value to, but it's value to only specific markets. His price tag and production limit his return, but as a streaky scorer he has value to a team in need of secondary scoring heading into the playoffs, especially with the ability to retain some of his cap hit, and the ability to take on perhaps less than desirable contracts in the short term.

The value for Calgary is in having two and hopefully 3 first round picks in this years draft as well as ideally, 2 second round picks.

Step one is accumulating multiple selections in the first seventy five picks,and even better parlaying some of those picks/players into having multiple first rounders again next year.

[skcli]

Looking at the current numbers I don't know who will want to trade for Iggy, Cammy and the like. If it does not work in Calgary, how does it work somewhere else ? Too much burden for the D and Kipper while bulk of the old guards are cruisers. Still remember Iggy said before we have to run the table to get to the playoff but it NEVER happened. Too much talk from the core but no action. Need Intellectual Honesty speech pretty soon.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by skcli

Looking at the current numbers I don't know who will want to trade for Iggy, Cammy and the like. If it does not work in Calgary, how does it work somewhere else ? Too much burden for the D and Kipper while bulk of the old guards are cruisers. Still remember Iggy said before we have to run the table to get to the playoff but it NEVER happened. Too much talk from the core but no action. Need Intellectual Honesty speech pretty soon.

They had the lanny motivational speech.

Next up is the closed door meeting.

After that, players only meeting.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think you're right, except that I also think kipper has significant value especially in light of his contract situation.

I just haven't seen teams place a ton of value on goalies, especially older ones. Vokoun has put up much better numbers than Kiprusoff over the last few years (.923 compared to Kipprusoff's .911 over the last 4 seasons), has been way more consistent, is the same age, and yet he's basically a 1B goalie making $2M. Maybe if Kiprusoff starts to dominate again, but right now he's a 36 year goalie who hasn't strung together more than 1 good season in a row since 06-07. When he's on he's one of the best, but I just think any potential GM isn't really going to know what they're going to get.

I think the Flames could get decent value in return for him, but I don't see anyone opening the vault in terms of top prospects or 1st round picks for what would essentially be a stopgap.

The market for defenders will always be high, and I would look to move both bouwmeester and giordano if there was significant interest. Vancouver is an example of the type of team that cammelleri has lots of value to, but it's value to only specific markets. His price tag and production limit his return, but as a streaky scorer he has value to a team in need of secondary scoring heading into the playoffs, especially with the ability to retain some of his cap hit, and the ability to take on perhaps less than desirable contracts in the short term.

Yeah retaining part of the contract could definitely bump up some of the guys' value and I think Cammalleri's playoff performances will help generate some interest, but I think save for Iginla a lot of the interest might be from bargain hunters. Who knows though, all it takes is one desperate GM to blow Feaster's socks off with an offer.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you imagine the return on trading iginla, bouwmeester, kipper and cammelleri in one, shortened season?

I doubt we'd get much for Cammelleri - someone else's bad contract and a 2nd. And I think we need to temper our expectations for Kipper, as well. What kind of precedents are there for 36-year-old goalies bringing back high-end picks or prospects?

[taco.vidal]

Kipper has next to no value the way he is playing to start the season.

You would need a special scenario to get great value for him- For example, a few weeks before the trade deadline, Kipper has put up a month where he has dominated and is one of the top goalies in the league AND a starting goalies goes down for a contender without a great backup, such as Lundquist in NYR. Then you might be able to get higher some picks and prospects.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by RobDoupe

I doubt we'd get much for Cammelleri - someone else's bad contract and a 2nd. And I think we need to temper our expectations for Kipper, as well. What kind of precedents are there for 36-year-old goalies bringing back high-end picks or prospects?

Roloson.

[Vinny01]

The hawks are a team with a good prospect pool and would have interest in kipper if he was made available

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

signing them after they are able to contribute meaningfully is a different story.

This goes completely against acheiving long term goals

Really don't think that would be an issue. If 2 or 3 of the five became corner stones of the team, and we did have difficulty signing the rest then we trade the others for other young talents. This is all pretty much hypothetical and optimistic thinking since I highly doubt the team will go in that direction, trade so many of our key guys, or that all of Cammy, Kipper, Iggy, and Tanguay would get us a 1st +

[868904]

Cammy won't return much this year since he has another year left on his contract, but next trade deadline, I think he'll be pretty valuable.

Cammy is here to stay till then.

[1stLand]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

They had the lanny motivational speech.

Next up is the closed door meeting.

After that, players only meeting.

Next up, Nenshi addresses the team and threatens to move practices to the Don Hartman NE sportsplex.

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I just haven't seen teams place a ton of value on goalies, especially older ones. Vokoun has put up much better numbers than Kiprusoff over the last few years (.923 compared to Kipprusoff's .911 over the last 4 seasons), has been way more consistent, is the same age, and yet he's basically a 1B goalie making $2M. Maybe if Kiprusoff starts to dominate again, but right now he's a 36 year goalie who hasn't strung together more than 1 good season in a row since 06-07. When he's on he's one of the best, but I just think any potential GM isn't really going to know what they're going to get.

I would agree. Most teams going into the playoffs are going to be committed to goalies that they are not going to take several weeks of Kipprusoff over (either because their goalies are already as good, or get the job done while being much younger and potentially cheaper). The ones that aren't, say like Philly, have other issues that would need to be addressed before bringing someone like Kipper on board. Acquiring a 36 year old goalie who comes with possible retirement uncertainty is not going to be a course of action for non-playoff teams. Either way, I think the time for a big return on Kipprusoff was a year or two ago.

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The hawks are a team with a good prospect pool and would have interest in kipper if he was made available

I think the Hawk's current team combined with their prospect pool is exactly why they wouldn't be interested in Kipper. They're not in a tight window where they have to absolutely win now so they can afford to keep going with Crawford. They're not going to give up a good prospect for a few weeks of Kipper just to go back to Crawford next season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by RobDoupe

Our future is in Murray Edwards' hands. And he strikes me as a very, very stubborn man.

Being one of the rare people that still has a subscription to the Hockey News they recently had their issue of the most important men in hockey where they did a story on Edwards who is in their top 10. The funny part is that THN talks about how important a confidant he is for Bettman and how much of a leader amongst the owners he is/was in the labour negotiations and then kind of comment along the lines of how large a figure he is all this despite the fact his team is a mess. Essentially saying; "He's really good at this, but not so good at that".

The fact is that Edwards is a very smart man and I don't believe this dumb "win now" mission statement has anything to do with stubbornness. I don't believe for a second he's naive enough to think the Flames could win anything the past few years or this season. He knows that fan favourites like Iginla, Kipper and 85-95 points is all that's required to keep interest and sellouts. He wants his shiny new building and doesn't want rebuilding team without Iginla to sell tickets getting in the way of that.

[djsFlames]

Hawks, Leafs, Panthers, Flyers, Caps, maybe even Yotes could all have interest in Kipper if made available.

People forget his .921 save percentage last year behind a talent-lacking roster...

Other clubs aren't going to care that terribly much of this season if the Flames stink it up enough to the point of succumbing to trading their #1. They'll likely chalk it up more to the team than to him.

He'd likely either bring back a higher end prospect and a 2nd, or a 1st and a middle echelon prospect (AT the trade deadline, that is).

Cammy, you might get something decent for in a trade with a Vancouver, per say, as they're always looking to stock up on 2nd line guys. Maybe you'd grab a 2nd + prospect.

Iginla and Jbo are where you can bank on picking up more 1sts for this years' draft.

BUT I'd much rather prefer that our current team just goes out and starts kicking ass. Win their 3 games in hand, and they're right back up near the top. Season's still in the baby stages, people. It's fun to speculate, but we need to stop going nuclear here. Have some damn faith in our team.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

They had the lanny motivational speech.

Next up is the closed door meeting.

After that, players only meeting.

The leadership core of this team, who could careless about winning, must just laugh at the same stunts used every year to spur them on to missing the playoffs.

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hawks, Leafs, Panthers, Flyers, Caps, maybe even Yotes could all have interest in Kipper if made available.

I could see the Flyers if they managed to unload Bryz (not likely unless there's a buyout during the summer at which point acquiring Kipper may or may not being an option), but why would the other teams be interested in Kipper for a few weeks? If it was known that he was going to play for another couple of years then I could see some teams being interested, but until that is known I think many teams pursue other options (like Bernier for example).

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

The leadership core of this team, who could careless about winning, must just laugh at the same stunts used every year to spur them on to missing the playoffs.

Yeap, I'm sure the leadership core of this team COULD care less about winning.