Give Irving the next few starts

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Why? because he doesn't know he cost the club 2 games? Whats the point of sending him a message by putting irving out there and costing us another 2 games in a shortened season.

Kipper always comes back, and if he doesn't all the Kipper haters should be ecstatic, since the majority of them wants us to finish last anyways.

Because goaltenders need to be held accountable too. Perhaps putting Irving in will help the team re-focus defensively and give up slightly lower quality chances against. On the flip side, maybe it pisses Kipper off and gives him a kick in the butt.

Either way giving him a rest should not be out of the question. Irving proved last year he's competent when in the net - he needs to be given a chance.

[SebC]

The good news is our non-SV% metrics are actually quite good. Median team in scoring, top half in shots for, third best shots against, +5 shot/game differential. If Kipper can bring his save percentage into line and we don't slip elsewhere, we should be able to make a push.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Gotta love the kipper doubters early in the season only to be silenced a couple days later and never to return.

No playoffs 3 years in a row. Not very good 3 of the past 5 years from Kipper. He's proven the doubters right numerous times in the past. He interchanges good seasons with bad. Still a good goalie but definitely not elite (which his salary suggests).

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'll say it again...we need to get Kipper going, long term we need the guy. Irving MIGHT be slightly better for a game or two but long term

No quality Kipper=no chance

that is exactly the truth of the situation. If Kipper does not play well the Flames have no chance.
Irving gives us no better outlook at all. Its on Kippers shoulders.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

No playoffs 3 years in a row. Not very good 3 of the past 5 years from Kipper. He's proven the doubters right numerous times in the past. He interchanges good seasons with bad. Still a good goalie but definitely not elite (which his salary suggests).

I don't think anyone is saying Kipper is one of the top 5 goalies in the league like he used to be, but it's a giant stretch to declare him to now be the worst.

Saying he is on the decline is fair though. He is getting older after all. Although I think the team in front of him getting older and crappier too has something to do with his numbers the last few years.

[dammage79]

I just do not understand the train of thought here. Irving doesn't get any starts therefore has no chance to prove if he can handle the job and people tell us he isn't the answer. Then, Kipper lays some real bad games at our feet and some of us get concerned. We voice our concern based on statistical fact and get dumped on.

5 games in a 48 game season is a fair sample size to worry over. Especially given the fact that Hartley is breaking the season down into seven game chunks. We missed our target of nine points already in this chunk and yet Kipper gets a pass? So in the next bracket just to make up the lost points they would have to win out the bracket. The hill is getting slippery and steeper and we're 6 games in....not good. Kipper HAS to be better against CHI. if he isn't , it is fair to say its time to start gambling and get Irving or whoever some some starts, win or lose.

I don't like it anymore than anyone else here but this is a real concern. I hope Kipper bounces back and can level his game out. But he is fighting the puck more than I have ever seen him. Even tracking the puck he is far below his normal standards. And don't tell me thats partly the D's fault. Pretty much the same D core from last year, he knows their tendancies.

[MissTeeks]

At least he has the confidence of his teammates still:

Calgary Flames ‏@NHLFlames
"There's no doubt in my mind that Kipper is an elite goaltender and will always be" - Curtis Glencross pic.twitter.com/CuDvDaln

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

At least he has the confidence of his teammates still:

Calgary Flames ‏@NHLFlames
"There's no doubt in my mind that Kipper is an elite goaltender and will always be" - Curtis Glencross pic.twitter.com/CuDvDaln

good for Glencross. There's doubt in every other rational person's mind. I wouldn't expect a 3rd line winger getting 1st line minutes to see anything wrong the team. He wakes up to his own personal utopia each morning.

[SofaProfessor]

Oh man. Yeah, Kipper has not looked his best but let's turn the dial back a couple notches here. In reality, there is a list of problems on this team that are all more responsible for the slow start than Kipper. How about two guys making more money than most of us will ever see in our lifetimes with 0 goals to show so far? Perhaps Butler throwing the puck to open opponents in his own zone like it's the first time he's held a hockey stick constitutes as an issue. The fact we're playing our top playmaking left winger at centre could be considered troubling to some. Yes, Irving deserves a start soon here. And if he plays well he deserves to keep getting starts. But let's all stop and realize that a goalie is one piece of a team and the last line of defense when all else fails. This team has relied on Kipper to steal games so much in the past that when he doesn't do that it's a complete failure in our eyes. I would love to see our top line steal a game one of these days and then maybe we can put Kipper's feet to the fire. Right now, he's just one of many pieces that aren't living up to expectations and to single him out would be accomplishing nothing.

[edn88]

Kipper is somewhat a product of the defence in front of him, and the defence has not be what it has been in the past few years.

[Flash Walken]

Kipper stole a freakin' point in the game against Vancouver. How quickly we forget.

Tough to play goaltender when your team plays river hockey. Just ask Dubnyk.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by SofaProfessor

This team has relied on Kipper to steal games so much in the past that when he doesn't do that it's a complete failure in our eyes.

But he's not just "not stealing us games"... he's actively costing us games. If the team was getting few shots of their own and letting him get peppered with shots and 5-Alarm chances galore I wouldn't be saying anything negative about him but the rest of the team has given him the third lowest shots allowed per game so far... the team isn't letting Kipper down he's letting the team down. The rest of the team is collectively doing a good job. It's not the case that Kipper just hasn't been strong enough to keep the weak links together... he's been the weak link.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Tough to play goaltender when your team plays river hockey. Just ask Dubnyk.

Dubnyk would know the Oilers allow the 5th most shots against per game but Kipper has been getting good shot suppression so that doesn't really apply to him.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...otingOutshotby

[MikeMc]

Originally Posted by Parallex

But he's not just "not stealing us games"... he's actively costing us games. If the team was getting few shots of their own and letting him get peppered with shots and 5-Alarm chances galore I wouldn't be saying anything negative about him but the rest of the team has given him the third lowest shots allowed per game so far... the team isn't letting Kipper down he's letting the team down. The rest of the team is collectively doing a good job.

Easy bubba. Calgary's defensive coverage has been absolutely terrible for most of the games so far. No Kipper hasn't been consistently good, and last night he was downright bad (it's going to happen to every goalie). However to suggest he's the main issue with the teams defensive performance to this point is incorrect.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by MikeMc

However to suggest he's the main issue with the teams defensive performance to this point is incorrect.

Shrug... as I said above the flames are third in the league in Fewest Shots Against per game while having the 9th best shots for per game. I'd call that a good to very good performance collectively overall from the guys in front of him. So I'm going to have to disagree, I think he is the main issue at the moment. IMO if we'd have gotten just league average goaltending we'd be 3-1-1 right now.

I ain't saying that he should be traded for the proverbial bag of pucks... but the season is too short to let him have an infinately long leash.

[thymebalm]

To the OP suggestion:

The sooner we give Irving some starts the sooner we can write him off as the goaltender of the future and get a real #2 between the pipes. Ramo/Brust/Taylor are all better than Irving. Winner of nothing. ever.

He will fail at this level. I'll bet a ball hair sandwich on it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by The Big Thirsty

good for Glencross. There's doubt in every other rational person's mind. I wouldn't expect a 3rd line winger getting 1st line minutes to see anything wrong the team. He wakes up to his own personal utopia each morning.

Yeah what an idiot of a teammate for standing up for his goalie, he should have thrown Kipper under the bus and blamed him for the losses.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

To the OP suggestion:

The sooner we give Irving some starts the sooner we can write him off as the goaltender of the future and get a real #2 between the pipes. Ramo/Brust/Taylor are all better than Irving. Winner of nothing. ever.

He will fail at this level. I'll bet a ball hair sandwich on it.

What have these guys ever won?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Shrug... as I said above the flames are third in the league in Fewest Shots Against per game while having the 9th best shots for per game. I'd call that a good to very good performance collectively overall from the guys in front of him. So I'm going to have to disagree, I think he is the main issue at the moment. IMO if we'd have gotten just league average goaltending we'd be 3-1-1 right now.

I ain't saying that he should be traded for the proverbial bag of pucks... but the season is too short to let him have an infinately long leash.

Teams that are trailing tend to have better shot differentials than teams that are leading due to the latter sitting back and protecting the lead. Over a small sample a poor performing team can have a better shot differential than they otherwise would simply by virtue of the fact that they've been playing from behind a lot.

Not saying that's what's behind the Flames' numbers, but I'd avoid reading too much into stats like that over a 5 game sample. These things usually take 20+ games to start to shake themselves out.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah what an idiot of a teammate for standing up for his goalie, he should have thrown Kipper under the bus and blamed him for the losses.

In the past he's just lashed out that fans when they've criticised the team.

[The Big Thirsty]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

What have these guys ever won?

What has Kipper ever won, and when is the last time he played a playoff game?