Standings Death for Seth?

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm envisioning the Flames getting royally screwed by the revision to the draft lottery system.

This time the team will finish in a place where they should get a good pick only to get screwed by the new lottery system and get leapfrogged.

thats the way i feel also. There is no reason to hope they tank for a low draft pick. It would be all for nothing.
A wasted season.

[puckluck2]

I would never pick a defencemen first overall unless he was heads and shoulders above the competition in a weak draft year.

Too many things can go wrong with defencemen.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Iginla

I would never pick a defencemen first overall unless he was heads and shoulders above the competition in a weak draft year.

Too many things can go wrong with defencemen.

What things can go wrong with a dman that cant with any other player?

[Table 5]

The Flames have a fairly decent track record of developing/acquiring defenseman already, so I feel like they could fill that need elsewhere without having to spend a top 5 pick. We have had a terrible time trying to get a true Centerman through alternate means, so if we get the chance to draft a #1 guy, that's what I'd be doing. As good as Jones is, I think a #1 Center is a rarer gem. Plus I hate the name Seth.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by MattyC

What things can go wrong with a dman that cant with any other player?

not enough d-men are drafted first overall to give a good comparison, but look at this list and tell me how many franchise defencement came out of first pick vs. forwards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...HL_draft_picks

I dunno what it is, but the d guys that you're really able to build around seem to come in later in the draft, indicating to me that scouts consider them riskier, much like goalies.

[Table 5]

In the last 20 years, the following defenseman have gone first overall: Hamrlik, Jovanovski, Berard, Phillips, Johnson.

While you have some good defenseman there, I would say I'd be pretty disappointed if thats what we'd get from a 1st overall. Obviously a small sample size, but it does seem like the chances of drafting a franchise forward are considerably higher.

[boggledepot]

Are you suggesting intentionally tanking?

We would hardly notice the difference.

[SuperMatt18]

Similar to defenseman taken second overall.

The following defensemen have went second overall in the last 20 years:

Ryan Murray
Victor Hedman
Drew Doughty
Andrei Zyuzin
Wade Redden
Oleg Tverdosky
Chris Pronger

[Sylvanfan]

At least it looks like a decent draft, so even if it's a top 5 pick, the result should be a pretty good player. Certainly the higher your pick the better the odds of getting a top player.

I'd rather be a bad team in a 48 game season than full 82 game one. So if there was a time to suck and not be so good, maybe this is the best time to do so. Granted, I think you have to let things play out. Intentionally trading players away to be bad right now would send a bad message. But if the team isn't doing particularly well 30 games into the season, than it's definitely time to consider making moves to trade off guys who aren't part of a multi year plan.

In terms of drafting defence vs. forward, a lot of guys nominated for Norris trophy's have spent time in the AHL. Conversely there have been a few guys going straight from Junior to the NHL, seem to struggle a couple of years later. Guys like Phaneuf, and Luke Schenn come to mind. Outside of Martin St.Louis, or goaltenders, it's highly infrequent that you see a Hart candidate who spend any time in the minors outside of a conditioning stint. IMO the forwards are much more ready to play in the NHL. If you're in the top 5, and the players are close in terms of ceiling...draft the forward.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

not enough d-men are drafted first overall to give a good comparison, but look at this list and tell me how many franchise defencement came out of first pick vs. forwards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...HL_draft_picks

I dunno what it is, but the d guys that you're really able to build around seem to come in later in the draft, indicating to me that scouts consider them riskier, much like goalies.

That's fine. I'm not advocating that teams should. I think taking defenseman in latter rounds more has to do with them developing slower than forwards. There are less spots for Dmen on a team and you have to, HAVE TO have man strength to be an NHL defenseman. An 18 yo forward can come in with slick moves and get through/around/past players but stopping them takes a different level of stability that most 18-22 year olds just dont have.

BUT the OP seemd to imply that there is more that can go wrong with a defenseman than a forward which I think is complete BS. Theres just as much chance of a career ending injury or not living up to hype for a forward as there is for any other player (goalie or dman). People don't blow high picks on dman generally because they dont want/can't wait 5 years for that player to make an impact. Not because there is more chance of them not panning out.

[1stLand]

If we keep playing Iginla 22 minutes a game we will end up in last place for sure.

By then, a 1st choice draft pick will be irrelevant anyways because the following year we will need to put Mackinnon on the fourth line with Baertschi so Iggy can keep his precious 1st line minutes every game

[Hockey_Ninja]

Standings death for Seth? Really? REALLY?!?!.....You can come up with a more clever title then that. How about "Get kicked in the Stones for Seth Jones"?

[AltaGuy]

Seth Jones really does look like the second coming of Rob Blake to me, and I wouldn't be unhappy with that!

That said, I would never draft him over a player who could potentially be a Stamkos or Tavares. I think you have to take the forward, unless you're the Oilers, of course.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Standings death for Seth? Really? REALLY?!?!.....You can come up with a more clever title then that. How about "Get kicked in the Stones for Seth Jones"?

I prefer Take Meth for Seth.

[JiriHrdina]

How about "A case of the Moans for Jones"

or "Don't resist Fate - drop for Nate"

No...those suck.

[Sylvanfan]

We're not winnin but we're gettin MacKinnon?

Sounds like something a Leaf fan might say.

[Coach]

No back-bones for Jones

[North East Goon]

This seems to be coming down to the choice the Islanders had to make between Tavares and Hedman, history suggests they made the right decision by going Centreman.

[FlamesAddiction]

Don't toally suck, and draft Hunter Shinkaruk?

Continue the curse, go for Darnel Nurse?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A guy like Jones looks NHL ready right now. Not sure D are any more unpredictable than F. The bust rate is pretty similar from what I've seen. Some years defensemen can actually be safer picks.

Seth Jones looks like Dougie Hamilton who looks like a future Rob Blake.

I'd be all over Jones. It's not just raw ability I see in him.