Three Years Ago Today: The Dion goes to TO

[moon]

Originally Posted by Buster

Sutter was the only GM that totally screwed up the brilliant 2003 draft.

You're right I am sure the Islander fans are thrilled they got Robert Nillson and not Parise. The Kings must think it is awesome how they rode Brian Boyle and Jeff Tambellini to the Cup win last year and let their rivals get Corey Perry.

Can't think how the Panther fans could be pissed that they ended up with Nathan Horton at number 3 while ignoring bums such as Getzlf, Perry, Richards, Carter, Parise. And could you imagine how pissed they would have been if their GM had picked a guy like Perry or Erikson with their 2nd pick instead of Anthony Stewart?

Oilers fans might have been last 7 years in a row if it weren't for Marc-Andre Pouliot carrying them all those years.

And of course the top choice of them all, can't think any Rangers fan could think that their GM screwed up by getting Hugh Jessiman and his 2 NHL games at 15. What a steal!!!!!

All the Flames got was a pathetic 4 seasons of 47+ points from their defenseman, so great hits, a Calder and Norris nomination and some of the most exciting plays overall during his time as a Flame.

Clearly it was only Sutter that screwed that draft up.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Buster

And like I said, I'm not sure I would characterize them as "rumours."

So then you would categorize them as the lies they are?

[Flash Walken]

The thing that makes me question the behind the scenes factor the most is that Phaneuf is the only one who seemed to get what he wanted out of the transaction.

Sounds to me like Darryl gave him a nice little parachute out of this disaster.

[sun]

Bleh, completely awful 1 week period in Flames history. Don't want to think about it and wish we would all stop talking about it.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

That's possible. I don't agree, but it's possible.

However, swinging for the fences on a #1 center is never a bad idea in my mind. Trading Iggy and Kipper and aiming for the basement is always a bad idea to me.

Another good reason is a simple comparison between some of Darryl Sutter's "big splashes" (and attempted ones) and the only one Feaster has tried that we know about.

Feaster: Brad Richards, who unquestionably helped the Rags a lot last season, and I think would've helped us make the playoffs.

Darryl Sutter: Bouwmeester, Jokinen, Redden, Smyth.

Thank god Sutter never got the opportunity to trade Iggy or Kipper.

Why did you leave off Feaster going after Ryan Smyth, and leave off Darryl getting Tanguay and Langkow? Did those examples not fit your bias rant?

Originally Posted by sa226

In my ongoing futile attempt to remain optimistic about the Flames, I remember thinking this was a "Moneyball" type trade by Sutter.

Man, there is a word I haven't heard in a while. Moneyball sure was a favorite word here last year.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

He's responsible for the state our organization is in right now, which is an utter mess, so no, not forgiven.

eff that, Darryl is reponsible for my best memories as a hockey fan in 2004. and yes I'm including 1989 in that statement because 1. I was too young to really go out and enjoy it and 2. they weren't this crazy Cinderella story that created an unexpected and spontaneous eruption of the city's spirit.

that run ended up being his downfall because we all wanted to go on that ride again. you make it sound like he purposefully sabotaged the franchise for poops and giggles...no. he wanted to win just like everybody else, he just went about it totally wrong. but I guess you've never known a person who screwed up at their job, maybe that's why you can't forgive him.

[GirlySports]

We're going on that unexpected eruption again this year!

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Igster

Worst trade ever.

Gilmour for Leeman was

Try watching the worst trade ever light up the net for the Leafs every week, and be talked about as much as Gretzky.

[canflip_101]

dion didnt keep the puck in whenever it was going around the boards thats why sutter was like, i gotta let him go.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Why did you leave off Feaster going after Ryan Smyth, and leave off Darryl getting Tanguay and Langkow? Did those examples not fit your bias rant?

The whole Feaster/ Ryan Smith thing was a ploy IMO.

Gave the Flames some leverage in the Tanguay negotiations, and allowed the Kings to get some leverage in the negotiations with the Oilers.

That was strictly two GM's helping each other out by creating a false rumor.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The whole Feaster/ Ryan Smith thing was a ploy IMO.

Gave the Flames some leverage in the Tanguay negotiations, and allowed the Kings to get some leverage in the negotiations with the Oilers.

That was strictly two GM's helping each other out by creating a false rumor.

Oh, gotcha. Stuff that makes Feaster look good = ploy. Stuff that makes Darryl look bad = stupid.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by moon

You're right I am sure the Islander fans are thrilled they got Robert Nillson and not Parise. The Kings must think it is awesome how they rode Brian Boyle and Jeff Tambellini to the Cup win last year and let their rivals get Corey Perry.

Can't think how the Panther fans could be pissed that they ended up with Nathan Horton at number 3 while ignoring bums such as Getzlf, Perry, Richards, Carter, Parise. And could you imagine how pissed they would have been if their GM had picked a guy like Perry or Erikson with their 2nd pick instead of Anthony Stewart?

Oilers fans might have been last 7 years in a row if it weren't for Marc-Andre Pouliot carrying them all those years.

And of course the top choice of them all, can't think any Rangers fan could think that their GM screwed up by getting Hugh Jessiman and his 2 NHL games at 15. What a steal!!!!!

All the Flames got was a pathetic 4 seasons of 47+ points from their defenseman, so great hits, a Calder and Norris nomination and some of the most exciting plays overall during his time as a Flame.

Clearly it was only Sutter that screwed that draft up.

You're quite right. There were a couple of teams that screwed up that draft. Zherdev didn't work out either. But most of the other teams that drafted ahead of the Flames managed to not screw it up. Same with most of the teams afterward.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by calgaryred

Gilmour for Leeman was

Try watching the worst trade ever light up the net for the Leafs every week, and be talked about as much as Gretzky.

thats not even Sutter's worst trade. That was Jokinen and Prust for Higgins and Kotalik.

I would have been very happy if they fired Sutter after that one.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by moon

So then you would categorize them as the lies they are?

I'm assuming you feel you speak with some level of authority or knowledge.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Buster

I'm assuming you feel you speak with some level of authority or knowledge.

I feel I always speak with a level of authority.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Oh, gotcha. Stuff that makes Feaster look good = ploy. Stuff that makes Darryl look bad = stupid.

Hey I wasn't arguing with you. Sutter made some great moves in his time here as GM, especially if you take out that 10 day span. IMO that was just an obvious play by two GMs.

Flames were locked in contract negotiations with their star LW and just happened to be working on a trade for a LW to replace him.

The Kings were locked into negotiations with the Oilers since Ryan Smith would only go back to Alberta (preferably) Edmonton and had no leverage in the trade negotiations.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You are trying to justify your position by stating that a player they got by trading one of the players they got from us is contributing with their farm club. Think about that.


As far as Phaneuf playing 30 minutes a night goes, so did Bouwmeester in the past. Has he been a great player in your view? What about Chris Butler playing big minutes last year?

Dion Phaneuf as Leafs captain reminds me of Todd Simpson as our captain - the guy gets the letter because there is nobody else.

Overall though, I think you are introducing a false dichotomy. I am saying that the Leafs did not fleece the Flames, not that Phaneuf is terrible and worthless and anything else you are implying. I said in the other Phaneuf thread that the dude is trending into a slightly better version of Derek Morris. Which is to say that he will be a serviceable player for a long time. But he is already a shadow of what he was early in his NHL career, and it seems less and less likely that he will ever reach the potential we held for him.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Both teams got a bad deal.

You just said it was a bad deal and now you are backtracking saying he's trending to a serviceable defenseman, one that scored double digit goals and 40+ points last year. The fact is like Moon said before Phaneuf isn't nearly as bad as you and others like to paint him and a lesser defenseman such as Luke Schenn fetched Van Riemsdyk. It's not a bad deal for the Leafs until Phaneuf turns into a player so bad that they have to bury him on the depth chart as a #1 defenseman is a #1 defenseman and there are less than 40 in the league.

Give it up already as you can't win this argument.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Buster

I'm assuming you feel you speak with some level of authority or knowledge.

Are you?

You can't go in threads and drop vague hints all over the place and try and act as if you know anything more than anyone else in here. If you actually know something, tell us what it is and how you know it to be true, otherwise, you're just another guy on the internet repeating rumours. Yes, rumours.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You just said it was a bad deal and now you are backtracking saying he's trending to a serviceable defenseman, one that scored double digit goals and 40+ points last year. The fact is like Moon said before Phaneuf isn't nearly as bad as you and others like to paint him and a lesser defenseman such as Luke Schenn fetched Van Riemsdyk. It's not a bad deal for the Leafs until Phaneuf turns into a player so bad that they have to bury him on the depth chart as a #1 defenseman is a #1 defenseman and there are less than 40 in the league.

Give it up already as you can't win this argument.

Well, if we accept your definition of "backtracking", then no, I can't win because you will just redefine every English word you need to to maintain the delusion that you are right.

Toronto did not make that trade to acquire a serviceable defenceman. They traded for what they expected could still be a superstar defenceman. If the Leafs got Dion Phaneuf, the superstar Norris-winning defenceman that we all thought he would be following his rookie season in this trade, then yes, the Flames would have gotten fleeced. As it is, Toronto may have gotten the better of the trade, but they hardly made out like bandits. And I question whether Phaneuf has brought all that much to Toronto.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

We're going on that unexpected eruption again this year!

hate it when that happens, oh wait, hockey right?? yes, I hope you're correct. the good thing about sucking so long is that you never get blase about playoff action. I still think we'll get there before TO does.