Three Years Ago Today: The Dion goes to TO

[cannon7]

Worse than the Gilmour trade

Such a crappy time to be a Flames fan. That trade came on the heels of a ten game losing streak. It really made no sense, I now doubt that Darryl was solely behind that deal. I think ownership played a big role, I believe it when Keenan says ownership was pulling a lot of strings. Prior to the panic that season, Sutter was an ardent Phaneuf supporter.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I remember that day I started a "Sutter get's fleeced by Burke" thread that was locked and the reasoning was that it was too early to tell. .

Actually the reason Photon provided in the thread itself was this

"It's difficult to know how much Burke "destroyed" Sutter without knowing what else was being offered, and how much Sutter's hand was forced. "

That's a completely different reason then what you are providing. If you are going to use a locked thread as a way to tell everyone how smart you are, at least be accurate about why a mod locked a thread.

[LouCypher]

Might make some scratch there heads but I often wonder are we better off with Stajan? Would Phaneuf have a bigger impact on our lineup? Would a negative impact in the lineup with Phaneuf be better then someone like Stajan having little impact over time? I still think we got horrible value but I also think its almost going to look like a wash for both teams eventually.

[GGG]

Poor asset management starting from when we signed him long term. We should have signed him to a reasonable 3 year deal or forced him to go out and get an offer sheet and then decided if we wanted to match it.

Then when we went to trade we should have shopped him to maximize value, and focused on getting one asset back or picks and prospects. Not players which are easy to find on the free agent market. We gave up the best prospect and best player in the deal. That is never the making of a good deal.

I think I said I would wait and see how Ian White panned out before judging the deal and he turned into Babchuk a 6/7 defensemen. Trading Phaneuf was definately the right call, but they type of trade we made and the process was flawed.

Sutter's worst move as GM was firing himself as coach and becoming soley a GM.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Sutter legacy forever tarnished.

He engineered a Stanley Cup with the Kings and beat the lowlife diving Canucks in the process. All is forgiven in my book.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Should have started the rebuild three years ago, instead we've still be out of the playoffs for three years with nothing to show for it.

Yep. The Flames will be forced into a full on rebuild eventually, this dithering around is only delaying the inevitable.

Originally Posted by timbit

Still not convinced that Sutter was totally to blame for the return the Flames received. Various King comments and the ownership's mandate to be a playoff team superceding intermediate and longterm growth probably had some significant impact.

I tend to agree. D. Sutter is simply too smart a hockey guy to go off the rails like he did. I really believe he was being pressured from upstairs to the point where he went against his better judgement. That doesn't absolve Darryl of all responsibility though.

[Huntingwhale]

On paper it should have been a decent trade. Pick any other team and get back 2 top-6 forwards and a top-4 defenseman and you'd think it would have been good. But of course any trade with Toronto ALWAYS works against us. Ian White actually played decent upon arrival. Stajan SHOULD have hit 50+ points. Hagman SHOULD have hit 25+ goals. In hindsight it's easy to say it was a disaster.

On paper, absolutely it should have worked out. TBH I don't' really fault Sutter at all for what happened. Just like the Jokinen and Bouwmeester arrivals, they SHOULD have worked out. I blame B.Sutter more then anything. He is the king of misusing players and trying to fit a square peg into a circle.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by zamler

He engineered a Stanley Cup with the Kings and beat the lowlife diving Canucks in the process. All is forgiven in my book.

He's responsible for the state our organization is in right now, which is an utter mess, so no, not forgiven.

I tend to agree. D. Sutter is simply too smart a hockey guy to go off the rails like he did. I really believe he was being pressured from upstairs to the point where he went against his better judgement. That doesn't absolve Darryl of all responsibility though.

Agreed with that too. The trade was so bad and Sutter's history really make you wonder who was pulling the strings on that deal and subsequent franchise sinking deals that followed.

Ken Kling and Co. have gotten off with remarkably little blame.

[sa226]

I wish for the sake of peoples' health, that they would get off the "rebuild" bandwagon.

For as long as the current ownership, Feaster and King are around the flames will not be doing a full on rebuild.




I'm sure this could fit in the "unpopular opinion" thread.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by sa226

I wish for the sake of peoples' health, that they would get off the "rebuild" bandwagon.

For as long as the current ownership, Feaster and King are around the flames will not be doing a full on rebuild.




I'm sure this could fit in the "unpopular opinion" thread.

Oh it's in that thread. Just search my username.

[MolsonInBothHands]

I was tossed when it happened. I always had a feeling Phaneuf was a meat-head, but that was based on conjecture and rumour. I was glad he got moved out, but at the same time wished he could have brought a better return to Calgary in the trade. I don't know whether he was overvalued or not, but it sure seemed Sutter was falling off his rocker at that time.

You have to wonder why Sutter never considered more trade avenues for him. Sending a guy with Dion's ego and seemingly diminishing on ice value to the pressure cooker in Toronto almost seems like a setup for him to fail, or at least learn some humility.

Bottom line - as things sit today, I wouldn't give Stajan up for Phaneuf, and I am by no means a Stajan fan.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by sa226

I wish for the sake of peoples' health, that they would get off the "rebuild" bandwagon.

For as long as the current ownership, Feaster and King are around the flames will not be doing a full on rebuild.




I'm sure this could fit in the "unpopular opinion" thread.

I'm pretty sure the majority of flames fans does not support the full rebuild suck-comeau oiler strategy. There are only a loud few on here that supports that.

[I_H8_Crawford]

2nd worst trade in the franchise's history.

Absolutely BRUTAL trade by Sutter who went bat-crap crazy that week.

Trading your only blue-chip trade bait without a NMC for a pile of absolute crap??? Awful. Horrible. And it did set this franchise back years because of it.

My blood pressure still rises when I think of that trade and how utterly STUPID it was.

I just hope Feaster and all future GMs have now learned from history - do NOT make big trades with the Leafs... you will get raped every time.

Horrible trade, and Sutter should have been fired the second he mentioned that was the deal he was going to accept.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by sa226

I wish for the sake of peoples' health, that they would get off the "rebuild" bandwagon.

For as long as the current ownership, Feaster and King are around the flames will not be doing a full on rebuild.


I'm sure this could fit in the "unpopular opinion" thread.

Agreed. Why would anyone blow up and rebuild in a cap system?
What they're doing up north is ridiculous and will fail miserably.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Doug_Dadswell

Surprised that there is no mention of Keith Aulie in this thread. He was the best player in the deal.

If you've been listening to leaf fans last year, then yes. Aulie played well enough to be Phaneuf's partner and next thing you know, future top 2 pairing defenseman was stolen from the Flames.
No doubt we would probably lovely to have Aulie over Butler as a future replacement for Sarah, but right now he's a #5 D

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I'm pretty sure the majority of flames fans does not support the full rebuild suck-comeau oiler strategy. There are only a loud few on here that supports that.

Not much point now when Iggy, Tanguay and Kipper aren't worth nearly as much as they were 3 yrs ago. I think the boat has sailed on a decent return on these guys.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Bottom line - as things sit today, I wouldn't give Stajan up for Phaneuf, and I am by no means a Stajan fan.

That is a very level headed thing to say.

1. Cap Hit - massively over priced in this market, especially with cap going down next year. We keep Dion, we lose someone else. Before you say Stajan, he wouldn't be here so that money for Hudler, Wideman, Glencross may not have been available. Opportunity cost.

2. He's a captain and #1 D - he is their most recognizable d man for sure. Regardless, a captain is supposed to elevate the people around him, TO has been a bottom dweller since he got there. Nothing has changed. He has good stats, but who cares, TO has to win games.

3. He would have clashed with current leaders - This isn't even a question, he was fighting with Reggie and Iggy towards the end. He made it a me or them situation that may have forced Sutter's hand during the losing streak. Right or wrong on siding with Iggy, Dion forced that situation and that was a problem. Typical me first attitude that Subban, Yak, and many of these young new guys display.

4. We don't know, what we don't know - Wax all you want that Dion would have got you a top player but show proof. Otherwise it is all speculation and conjecture. Maybe that was in fact the best deal, Sutter knows, maybe ownership does too, be we Shute as heck don't.

I have always said Sutter still would have won that trade on shear cap space, and locker room drama removal alone. If he only didn't resign Stajan that cap money could have went to getting that #1 center for Iggy. Now there is a what if.

[nik-]

I thought that Sutter should have been gone after the 4th first round exit in a row. If that would have happened, this trade wouldn't have gone down, or maybe they would have traded for something good.

They gave him too much rope and he used it to #### up our team

[Buster]

Our garbage for their garbage.

The real shame of the whole situation is that we drafted Phaneuf in the first place over some much better players.

Sutter was the only GM that totally screwed up the brilliant 2003 draft.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Actually the reason Photon provided in the thread itself was this

"It's difficult to know how much Burke "destroyed" Sutter without knowing what else was being offered, and how much Sutter's hand was forced. "

That's a completely different reason then what you are providing. If you are going to use a locked thread as a way to tell everyone how smart you are, at least be accurate about why a mod locked a thread.

Oh Jiri. You actually went back just to make that post. Good on you sparing no expense to take a dig at me. I was still right that day and that bothers you.

[Tinordi]

At the time Phaneuf wasn't garbage. At least he wasn't the garbage he is now. We could have gotten alot more for him if we didn't have such a stupid win at all costs right now view.