General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Until you have a stable ownership situation - and one that isn't pillaging the franchise behind closed doors - I don't think recent attendance is particularly relevant as a guage of what might happen in the future.

It must be extraordinarily difficult to secure sponsorships or convince fans to commit emotionally to you if every second headline is about how you're going to take off in the dark of night.

Put the baloney behind them in a city of five million and commit to 25 years . . . . . and you'll probably start to get some traction on getting 18,000 into the building every night. As with any market like that . . . . you have to win or attendance will be more variable than it might be in a northern city.

I agree, however, having been there to a game, that Glendale is definitely not the most ideal spot to navigate to. Now that I know the freeways better, I'll try again next November when I'm down there and see how that works out. But they look like they're positioned on the opposite side of the city from the money and that's probably not a good idea.

Cowperson

I have never understood this complaint...

The arena is right on the 101, which, with the 202, is a primary ring-highway around Phoenix. No matter where you are in the greater Phoenix area, you hop on the freeway and you are one or two turns away.

Is it far for some people? Yes. I couldn't be further away in NE Scottsdale. But because it is right on the 101, it's an easy 40 minute drive. (I am about 1/8th the distance away in Calgary but getting to the game takes almost as long).

[Northendzone]

seems surprising that after all of the time, the BoG opted to slash the price. seems that jamison has been stumbling to the finish line for months (otherwise this deal would be done right) so why move on the price at pretty much the last minute.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have never understood this complaint...

The arena is right on the 101, which, with the 202, is a primary ring-highway around Phoenix. No matter where you are in the greater Phoenix area, you hop on the freeway and you are one or two turns away.

Is it far for some people? Yes. I couldn't be further away in NE Scottsdale. But because it is right on the 101, it's an easy 40 minute drive. (I am about 1/8th the distance away in Calgary but getting to the game takes almost as long).

But there is a big difference between expecting hardcore rabid fans to drive the extra distance..

Convicning someone in Calgary (or Canada in general) to drive 1.5 hours return 41 times a year to see hockey is one thing. But it is a little too optimistic to step into a brand new market and expect the same thing. Glendale may not be "far" by our standards, but it's far enough when trying to sell something to people that aren't convinced they want it.

I don't think anyone ever expected the NHL to step into Arizona and experience immediate stardom. It was always a market that was going to have be built for the next generation as you are really targeting the people growing up with the team. In the meantime, you have to convince the parents and current generation to go despite having little sentimental attachment. Some of the logistics aren't helping.

[Itse]

Not that I know anything of the Phoenix area, but generally speaking distances are very much a mental thing. People are more ready to travel downtown, to places they visit often and shorter distances, even if it actually takes more time and effort than going the other way.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

seems surprising that after all of the time, the BoG opted to slash the price. seems that jamison has been stumbling to the finish line for months (otherwise this deal would be done right) so why move on the price at pretty much the last minute.

It would make sense to do that if he has the funding to get to a certain price point but hasn't secured the funding to bridge the gap.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have never understood this complaint...

The arena is right on the 101, which, with the 202, is a primary ring-highway around Phoenix. No matter where you are in the greater Phoenix area, you hop on the freeway and you are one or two turns away.

Is it far for some people? Yes. I couldn't be further away in NE Scottsdale. But because it is right on the 101, it's an easy 40 minute drive. (I am about 1/8th the distance away in Calgary but getting to the game takes almost as long).

The distances may not be great as the crow flies, but the rush hour traffic can be terrible. Long delays. Bouw could probably confirm this.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Did Lebrun actually say this? I find it curious that he had nothing on his Twitter.

LeBrun apparently discussed this on RDS (in French). He did not identify a source. Shannon on Sportsnet also said he did not think it could close on time.

If Bettman is going to Phoenix today, I think that is most likely good news for Coyotes fans.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by troutman

The distances may not be great as the crow flies, but the rush hour traffic can be terrible. Long delays. Bouw could probably confirm this.

Not on the 101 at 7:00

You literally drive right into the parking lot from the freeway. I know of no other arena that is easier to drive to

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by troutman

The distances may not be great as the crow flies, but the rush hour traffic can be terrible. Long delays. Bouw could probably confirm this.

I drive from the heart of Downtown at 3rd ave and roosevelt from work to Jobing.com for games all the time. It takes at max 30 minutes at peak rush hour unless there's a major accident.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not on the 101 at 7:00

You literally drive right into the parking lot from the freeway. I know of no other arena that is easier to drive to

Ditto, comparing to Calgary, especially in the winter time.. ugh........... if not for the Boston Pizza bus from Westbrook I probably would've never went to Flames games.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

But there is a big difference between expecting hardcore rabid fans to drive the extra distance..

Convicning someone in Calgary (or Canada in general) to drive 1.5 hours return 41 times a year to see hockey is one thing. But it is a little too optimistic to step into a brand new market and expect the same thing. Glendale may not be "far" by our standards, but it's far enough when trying to sell something to people that aren't convinced they want it.

I don't think anyone ever expected the NHL to step into Arizona and experience immediate stardom. It was always a market that was going to have be built for the next generation as you are really targeting the people growing up with the team. In the meantime, you have to convince the parents and current generation to go despite having little sentimental attachment. Some of the logistics aren't helping.

I get your point and I don't disagree.

But keep in mind that I am about as far away as anyone in the greater Phoenix area can be. If you looked at the map and asked 'who is the Glendale arena the least accessible to?' you would point at my house.

And yet, my commute to the game (despite being only a few kms from the arena in Calgary) is only marginally different.

And personally, I would rather be on a freeway at 75 mph than sit on 12th, going 2 mph (but that is personal choice)

[Enoch Root]

And another point (vs Calgary in particular, but it applies to every arena that I have been to)...

There is way more parking right at the arena. The parking could not be more convenient. You turn off the freeway and drive up to the building (which has available parking for football, so for Yotes games, it's a breeze)

For a Flames game, I park many times further away - despite the fact that it is winter here.

I simply refuse to accept the argument that the jobing.com arena is inconvenient. I find it to be quite convenient - or at least less painful - compared to other arenas I've been to.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And another point (vs Calgary in particular, but it applies to every arena that I have been to)...

There is way more parking right at the arena. The parking could not be more convenient. You turn off the freeway and drive up to the building (which has available parking for football, so for Yotes games, it's a breeze)

For a Flames game, I park many times further away - despite the fact that it is winter here.

I simply refuse to accept the argument that the jobing.com arena is inconvenient. I find it to be quite convenient - or at least less painful - compared to other arenas I've been to.

Do you think there's a perception among people that it's a pain to get to? I find that often people have convinced themselves that a location is much more of hassle than it actually is.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by valo403

Do you think there's a perception among people that it's a pain to get to? I find that often people have convinced themselves that a location is much more of hassle than it actually is.

Yes - people regularly argue that the arena is too far away for most people, and too inconvenient to get to. It is a comment argument as to why the Yotes have drawn poorly.

(not sure if serious...)

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by valo403

Do you think there's a perception among people that it's a pain to get to? I find that often people have convinced themselves that a location is much more of hassle than it actually is.

I think the comment above about the mental perception is apt.

With a good ring road, it wouldn't take me much longer to get to an arena on the north edge of Calgary - from the deep south - than to get to downtown. But the mental perception of going out of town would affect some people.

More importantly, I can't imagine the transit options to get from Scottsdale to Glendale are all that great. If you don't have a car, you're probably SOL. But that is an assumption Bouw or Enoch can clarify for me.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by valo403

It would make sense to do that if he has the funding to get to a certain price point but hasn't secured the funding to bridge the gap.

problem with slashing the price is that it devalues all of the other franchises - and the optics of a last minute fire sale are clearly not good.

to me jamison's comments over the last week or so seem to give him some wiggle room to escape out of all of this. I'd imagine his financing deal likely has lots of gum and bailing wire holding it together.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes - people regularly argue that the arena is too far away for most people, and too inconvenient to get to. It is a comment argument as to why the Yotes have drawn poorly.

(not sure if serious...)

I'm talking about people in Phoenix, not people in Calgary and elsewhere commenting on a forum. Do the locals treat it as if it's a monumental journey when it's actually pretty easy by the sounds of it.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm talking about people in Phoenix, not people in Calgary and elsewhere commenting on a forum. Do the locals treat it as if it's a monumental journey when it's actually pretty easy by the sounds of it.

I am not a local, so I'll leave that to Bouw.

But my perception is that this complaint is driven more by non-locals

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Northendzone;4042552[B

]problem with slashing the price is that it devalues all of the other franchises[/B] - and the optics of a last minute fire sale are clearly not good.

to me jamison's comments over the last week or so seem to give him some wiggle room to escape out of all of this. I'd imagine his financing deal likely has lots of gum and bailing wire holding it together.

No it doesn't, it devalues an NHL franchise in Phoenix, it doesn't do anything to the value of an NHL franchise elsewhere. Jamison isn't buying a franchise to move it, that's pretty clear. He's a buying a franchise in a distressed situation within a framework that will require him to either remain in Phoenix or pay some pretty hefty fees to move, and that assumes the BoG would even approve a move. Distressed assets sell at a discount, that doesn't devalue other assets that happen to be in the same business.

The optics aren't great, but they're better than the optics of the deal falling through and the team moving after assurances a sale would be completed.

[Resolute 14]

Yeah, that the St. Louis Blues sold for less in 2012 than they did in 2006 did not hurt the other teams values.