Interac without PIN?

[yads]

Came here to see if anyone called interac interact. Was not disappointed.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No offence, but how freaking sad is the 'younger generation' if inputting a four digit code is such a burden on you?

That said, I find it amusing and ridiculous that so soon after rolling out chip and pin technology to increase secuirty on cards, they follow it up with a system that defeats security entirely. Even if it is limited to relatively small transaction amounts.

The chip technology prevents duplication of debit and credit cards. So even without a pin required it is safer than the old cards.

When you get your new debit card you sign for it accepting this new feature. My bank asked me if I wanted it on or off. (I went with off).

I assume the drive for this comes from retailers like Mcdonalds who make money by decreasing the time it takes to process customers. Also the fraud rate for transactions under $50 is likely low so it is probably worth the risk for increased efficiency.

[bcsoda]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm a merchant with a point of sale machine that you have to insert your card then enter your pin. If you forget your pin, however, I just have to punch in your card number manually and it works just as well. That's how I take orders over the phone or my website, too. Pins are jokes and a waste of time... I'm going to ask my provider about this tap thing as it sounds way better.

I went to an info session done by Visa on card security a few years ago and, if I remember right, if you manually enter a card number during an in-person transaction you have no recourse at all in the event of a charge back. The US Visa website says it's fine if you get an imprint of the card using an actual imprint machine (not a pen or whatever like some merchants do), so it's probably the same in Canada.

"If, for any reason, you must key-enter a transaction to complete a card-present sale, make an imprint of the front of the card on the sales receipt, using a manual imprinter. Do not capture an impression of the card using a pencil, crayon, or other writing instrument. This process does not constitute a valid imprint . Even if the transaction is authorized and the receipt is signed, the transaction may be charged back to you if fraud occurs and the receipt does not have an imprint of the embossed account number and expiration date. This applies to all card-present transactions, including key-entry situations where the card presented is chip and the terminal is chip-enabled. When a merchant key-enters a transaction, an imprint is required regardless of the type of card and terminal capability."

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by photon

Phones with NFC can do this as well.

Only caveat is we need Secure SIMs which aren't supported by / available from Canadian carriers yet. But when it is, I'm definitely setting it up.

Edit: Looks like it is now... but only for BlackBerry?! Wtf mate.
http://www.rogers.com/web/content/su...setLanguage=en

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Dion

Not a fan of this. Nor am I a fan of retailers that haven't upgraded thier CC machines so I can use my pin number. Never had to use my pin number when using my Credt Card in Hawaii the past 2 weeks.

I have never come across a merchant in the U.S. that requires PIN numbers for a credit card and I've been all over the states.

[You Need a Thneed]

I've only managed to use my interac flash at McDonald's, Tim Hortons and London Drugs so far. Love not having to enter a PIN number. I think every $200 of spending you would have to enter a pin. However, not enough places support interac flash yet, so you have to enter your PIN number in between anyway.

It's rediculously fast, usually the transaction is approved in about 2-3 seconds after the tap.


I really don't know what's the difference between that and when I go to the gas station, swipe a credit card, and don't sign or enter a pin there.


McDonald's shouldn't be taking your card and tapping it themselves though. They should pass the machine to you so that you can tap it.

[Banner]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Went to McDonalds to get some breakfast today and the girl at the window took the card, brought it inside with her and closed the window. I was kind of shocked that she had grabbed it, rather than hand me the machine to us my card with, so I got her attention and tell her to give my card back. She did, and gave me a receipt with it.

Of course, I never entered my PIN, and the people at both windows assure me nothing is wrong and there is just a new Interact system, as we drive away.

Anyway, so I am trying to get a hold of McDs to figure out why with this system are they taking my card, since I have no way of knowing how many times they charged something to it, and for all I know I just brought them all breakfast.

My main question to CP is this: What kind of system is this, is it something my bank has set up and I didn't notice? Can I get it turned off, since the idea of someone charging my account without a PIN is not acceptable to me?

I work at McDonald's part time and there is no way we can overcharge you or make you pay any excess fees with the tap system.

As soon as an order is paid for, its status is "Paid" and the next order is brought up on the screen. If you saw the employee tap your card more than once then there is a possibility they used your card to pay for the car behind you, but if they did do that the employee would've been fired, and there's not really any point in making one person paying for two orders so I can't see anyone doing it. All drive thru stations and till systems are monitored by cameras at all times so if one employee did want to be a jerk for no reason, they can easily be caught.

My point is there isn't really any risk, and you can always check your bank statements or even your order receipt to see if you were overcharged/ paid for something you didn't buy. McDonald's managers are used to getting crap from customers so they'll refund anything you didn't intend on buying quite easily. I wouldn't recommend calling the actual corporation as they'd tell you the same thing I just did.

Furthermore, so far I've only seen this new interac system implemented in fast food restaurants, this is only to speed up the ordering process.

If you're still uncomfortable even after all this, you can either pay with cash or notify the employee that you wish to input your pin before giving him/her your card.

[Rathji]

Regardless of the new system, the girl still took the card from me, closed the window before I could protest and did the transaction herself.

The existence of skimming technology means this should never happen.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Banner

If you saw the employee tap your card more than once then there is a possibility they used your card to pay for the car behind you, but if they did do that the employee would've been fired, and there's not really any point in making one person paying for two orders so I can't see anyone doing it. All drive thru stations and till systems are monitored by cameras at all times so if one employee did want to be a jerk for no reason, they can easily be caught.

That is assuming the person who paid twice complains; how loudly, etc. Easy enough for the employee to cover their tracks- just say the car in front paid for you; a "pay it forward" type of thing.

The irony here is that the McDonalds Interac machines were already the fastest I have ever seen. So they are saving just a few seconds. However you have places like Superstore that are at least 30 seconds between the time that they ask you for which account, and ask for the PIN.

[Banner]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Regardless of the new system, the girl still took the card from me, closed the window before I could protest and did the transaction herself.

The existence of skimming technology means this should never happen.

Yeah I'm not really defending the employee just stating it's unlikely she wanted to make you pay for anything you didn't want to. Whenever you go to McDonald's just use cash or notify them you wish to pay by pin before handing them your card. The risks of skimming technology is a great factor but of course McDonald's has considered that, and as one of the biggest fast food corporations in the world the new system still got approved.

Also, the procedure for paying by credit/debit in the drive thru is one of two:

1. Employee hands customer the machine, this ensures the customer pays only for their own order, and they even get to choose which method (chip or pay pass)
2. Customer hands employee their card, and employee puts the chip in the machine and then hands the machine to the customer before the account selection(debit or credit) screen shows up.

So the employee did go against her limitations in this case with you, so you can negotiate this with the manager of the location you went to. She probably won't get fired, just a scolding and a re-learning of the rules I just explained.

Originally Posted by ken0042

That is assuming the person who paid twice complains; how loudly, etc. Easy enough for the employee to cover their tracks- just say the car in front paid for you; a "pay it forward" type of thing.

The irony here is that the McDonalds Interac machines were already the fastest I have ever seen. So they are saving just a few seconds. However you have places like Superstore that are at least 30 seconds between the time that they ask you for which account, and ask for the PIN.

Not really. McDonald's managers will always get the feedback of the car that paid twice, and through the debit/credit receipt they can track the owner of the card and ask them personally about the matter. It's also against fast food policy to trust the word of the employee when they receive a complaint or inquiry about a transaction.

And I mean this when I say it is SO EASY to get a refund from McDonald's. Unfortunately a lot of families abuse this fact to get free meals and such.

[Calgary '89]

This system works exactly like Mastercard Paypass and Visa Paywave. I work in the industry and every time we're flown out to regional or head office for meetings, Interac sends a representative to keep us up to date.
Flash is what they plan on pushing forward to make the use of your debit card even easier. Truth is it's not gonna revolutionize how we spend money, but it will shave seconds off the time you wait at the cashier, so there's some benefit to it.

I think the biggest issue right now is getting all banks on board with it because they'll have to shoulder some of the risk in the event your lost or stolen Flash debit card gets used by someone else. In the end it's about the consumer and they won't put you at risk.

It's only good for small purchases though, so don't expect Future Shop to pick it up.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm a merchant with a point of sale machine that you have to insert your card then enter your pin. If you forget your pin, however, I just have to punch in your card number manually and it works just as well. That's how I take orders over the phone or my website, too. Pins are jokes and a waste of time... I'm going to ask my provider about this tap thing as it sounds way better.

Chip and PIN is a necessary evil, It's the norm when it comes to secure payments. If the US wouldn't take so long to adopt EMV, this would have been the norm years ago, like in Europe.

It's to the point that Intel will be including Card Tap readers in their future processors, as a way of increasing security and reducing cost of online purchases.

[AMG_G]

Originally Posted by ken0042

That is assuming the person who paid twice complains; how loudly, etc. Easy enough for the employee to cover their tracks- just say the car in front paid for you; a "pay it forward" type of thing.

The irony here is that the McDonalds Interac machines were already the fastest I have ever seen. So they are saving just a few seconds. However you have places like Superstore that are at least 30 seconds between the time that they ask you for which account, and ask for the PIN.

Last week the car infront of me paid for my grand coffee at Starbucks. So the polite thing to do is pay for the car behind me to keep it going right? My $2 coffee cost me almost $15...I don't like having this pay it forward crammed down my throat. I only used drive thru because it was easier than taking a 4 year old and a 6 month old into the store for a coffee.

[ken0042]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I will return the "pay it forward" some other time. Like somebody pays for my coffee in the drive thru; I will refrain from stabbing the next hobo I see. (Or maybe even give him a toonie instead telling him to get a job.)

[spetch]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm a merchant with a point of sale machine that you have to insert your card then enter your pin. If you forget your pin, however, I just have to punch in your card number manually and it works just as well. That's how I take orders over the phone or my website, too. Pins are jokes and a waste of time... I'm going to ask my provider about this tap thing as it sounds way better.

Now only if they would charge the same rate for typing it as if we swiped/inserted it all would be ok. I sure as hell hate CC companies when it comes to all of their "rates".

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

I have never come across a merchant in the U.S. that requires PIN numbers for a credit card and I've been all over the states.

I was told the US will not be adopting the chip technology because of the expense. I was reading that a normal card costs about 10 cents, where a chip card costs almost $6. Not sure how accurate that is but I can see why they wouldn't want to make the change if it is true.

[Northendzone]

i'd like to think that the folks at interac have thought over the security concerns of this technology - i welcome the interac overloards.......

[CedarMeter]

Happened to me at Tim Hortons with my visa..She just tapped the card on a screen a bam transaction was done..I found this very odd.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

^^ just wait a few years til the idea of a card seems quaint and you buy your timmies through iTunes or Facebook

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No offence, but how freaking sad is the 'younger generation' if inputting a four digit code is such a burden on you?

That said, I find it amusing and ridiculous that so soon after rolling out chip and pin technology to increase secuirty on cards, they follow it up with a system that defeats security entirely. Even if it is limited to relatively small transaction amounts.

It's not ridiculous at all. How can something be defeated entirely and limited at the same time? It carries a zero liability policy for the consumer and it can be removed so I'm not sure why anybody but a Luddite would be uncomfortable with it. It perhaps opens risk to small amounts of fraud but chip and pin still limits bigger incidents and card duplication.

The new service speeds up transactions for places that lose business when their line-ups are too long. If anyone get ahold of the card and tries to run up a big total in fast food drive-thrus and/or small transactions in grocery stores full of cameras and sometimes security guards then good luck to them in life. The banks take on the bit of risk because they make extra money from more transactions being put through Interac because of it.