New Edmonton Arena Construction will begin in March 2014

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

So if I understand your point correctly, since Government wastes money on other things why not waste money on this?

No it is your opinion the arena is a waste not mine.

[korzym12]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No it is your opinion the arena is a waste not mine.

No, it is your understanding of the role of government that is wrong, and not a matter of "opinion".

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I didn't realize that there were people in Edmonton who were starving to survive under the authoritarian rule of a King or a Czar. Fact is that Edmonton needs a new arena, Rexall Place is just too damn old and I doubt that Katz has the assets to go it alone on a new arena, especially when there are positive effects for the city of Edmonton and the province of Alberta that need to be recognized.

Fact is that if Edmonton doesn't get a new arena I wouldn't be surprised to see them leave in the next 5-10 years, which hurts both Edmonton and Alberta from a financial and from a civic pride standpoint. At the end of the day the province will likely chip something in indirectly from a top up of some fund that will be put towards the arena by the city.

Are you seriously telling me the Edmonton Oilers, whose estimated value is 225 million, owned by man whose net worth is estimated at two billion dollars, a man who is the majority share holder of a company whose worth is billions more, cannot take out a line of credit and build a rink?

Are you telling me it is the city of Edmonton's responsibility to run a deficit, or cut public spending, so it can give out an interest free loan to the Oilers ownership group.

And for that matter, why would anybody want to help a man who is negotiating with the government and says: "I can justify the subsidization of this hockey arena because it is good for the community." At the same time, he is threatening to relocate the team if he doesn't get a government hand out, and is a member of a board who has shut down the game of hockey.

Professional hockey is a business, and this arena stands to make an already extremely wealthy man, even wealthier. The Oilers ownership group has the resources and the credit to build an arena. But why would anybody take out a massive line of credit from a bank and deal with interest charges, when the city of Edmonton will take all the risk for you.

In some ways this is like asking your parents to help you out in buying a house. But when the parents are struggling to get by, and the child has billions of dollars, most people would be completely disgusted by the audacity of the child, and tell him to build his own freakin' house.

[korzym12]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have worked with government and I can say the average taxpayer has no clue just how much money is wasted. It's sickening. People assume that all their taxpayer money goes to all the good things like hospitals, education, infrastructure, but most would be surprised that only a small portion of the pot goes to these areas and a lot of it goes to fat cats and wasteful spending.

There's no way you can back any of that up. Further more, you claim to know how to identify wasted tax dollars - but can't even recognize that an NHL arena is a waste of money, so its safe to say that even if you did work for the government, you can't tell the difference between waste and justified expenses in the first place.
#credibilityfail

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by korzym12

No, it is your understanding of the role of government that is wrong, and not a matter of "opinion".

There is the "role of government" and the reality of what happens when inmates run the asylum and government is simply selected inmates running the asylum. What they stand for and what they actually do are two completely different things.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by korzym12

There's no way you can back any of that up. Further more, you claim to know how to identify wasted tax dollars - but can't even recognize that an NHL arena is a waste of money, so its safe to say that even if you did work for the government, you can't tell the difference between waste and justified expenses in the first place.
#credibilityfail

Again explain why a world class facility built in a downtown of a city is a waste of money. Really think hard and spare me the typical rhetoric spin on government propping up millionares. Tell me in your own words why these world class facilities are bad for the cities. Tell me that you have zero doubt that any money put towards a building will take away from hospitals, infrastructure or schools and then back it up with proof. You say I have no credibility but you are simply following the sheep with the same old crap that happens any time a government decides its going to fund something that a portion of the population doesn't agree with. I don't hear anyone complaning about the Peace Bridge any more. It's human nature to complain and then carry on with their lifes when the topic of the argument is no longer sexy.

[dino7c]

the reason Calgary misses concerts has nothing to do with how modern or fancy the arena is...its the design of the roof that makes some concert setups impossible. Trust me they play in older less fancy rinks in the states. The dome is actually great size wise and the local economy is good those shows want to come but the roof doesn't accommodate their setup

just saying

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by dino7c

the reason Calgary misses concerts has nothing to do with how modern or fancy the arena is...its the design of the roof that makes some concert setups impossible. Trust me they play in older less fancy rinks in the states. The dome is actually great size wise and the local economy is good those shows want to come but the roof doesn't accommodate their setup

just saying

I don't think anybody said anything contrary to that. Just saying.

[CaptainCrunch]

If his businesses are profitable, and his net worth is increasing then there is no need for the government of Alberta to step in and help fund this arena especially in a time when they can't balance their budget, period. Especially with the ethical problems of the government receiving a huge check to their political party from Katz.

I agree with others, if Katz wants to expand his business offerings then its up to him to either find the money, get a line of credit, or open up his partnership to bring more cash aboard.

Beyond the fact that you would need to take anything that Katz gets and double it to give equivalent funding to the Flames ownership group.

[clancy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

the reason Calgary misses concerts has nothing to do with how modern or fancy the arena is...its the design of the roof that makes some concert setups impossible. Trust me they play in older less fancy rinks in the states. The dome is actually great size wise and the local economy is good those shows want to come but the roof doesn't accommodate their setup


just saying

You are correct sir

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I don't know if it was posted but there was a report released recently where it ranked venues world wide for concerts and Calgary finished 101. Edmonton was a lot higher (don't remember off hand). It also stated that Rexall made three times the revenue over the Saddledome.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/01/19...ifth-in-canada

It's a good argument for building a new arena in Calgary, but also an argument for Edmonton not needing a new arena. Rexall is able to compete with the ACC, Bell, and Rogers Centres despite being 20 years older than those other arenas.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by boggledepot

In some ways this is like asking your parents to help you out in buying a house. But when the parents are struggling to get by, and the child has billions of dollars, most people would be completely disgusted by the audacity of the child, and tell him to build his own freakin' house.

Hmm, that's actually a not too bad analogy. I don't see why Katz can't borrow the money to build it. He sure has enough finanical collateral to do it. I guess why put yourself at risk when you can just sucker the government and the Edmonton tax payers to foot a large part of the bill.

[CaptainCrunch]

He wants the money and dosen't want to pay any of it back.

He wants little to no risk.

I agree with the above point, the study shows that Edmonton doesn't need a new rink in terms of generating revenue.

[EddyBeers]

On a side note, having Bettman as the "mediator" is crazy. It seems to me to be akin to having your ex sister-in-law mediate your divorce proceedings.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Maybe 1-2 a year, at most.

Nope, way more, and it's the biggest touring acts, which makes it even worse. In the future keep an eye on bands that go to Edmonton and not Calgary.

That's not to mention the bands that skip Alberta altogether because they can't justify only going to Edmonton because they can't play the Saddledome.

Also, we get doubly screwed because of our football stadium situation. Commenwealth Stadium in Edmonton hosts major acts like ACDC, U2 and the police, that skipped Calgary because of McMAhon. Not to mention they obviously got the benifit of bigger crowds for the Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift and Bon Jovi, who al played the Dome in Calgary and Commenwealth in Edmonton.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dino7c

the reason Calgary misses concerts has nothing to do with how modern or fancy the arena is...its the design of the roof that makes some concert setups impossible. Trust me they play in older less fancy rinks in the states. The dome is actually great size wise and the local economy is good those shows want to come but the roof doesn't accommodate their setup

just saying

I think that was everyone's point. The Dome isn't suffiecient for drawing all the major tours in.

[korzym12]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There is the "role of government" and the reality of what happens when inmates run the asylum and government is simply selected inmates running the asylum. What they stand for and what they actually do are two completely different things.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Again explain why a world class facility built in a downtown of a city is a waste of money. Really think hard and spare me the typical rhetoric spin on government propping up millionares. Tell me in your own words why these world class facilities are bad for the cities. Tell me that you have zero doubt that any money put towards a building will take away from hospitals, infrastructure or schools and then back it up with proof. You say I have no credibility but you are simply following the sheep with the same old crap that happens any time a government decides its going to fund something that a portion of the population doesn't agree with. I don't hear anyone complaning about the Peace Bridge any more. It's human nature to complain and then carry on with their lifes when the topic of the argument is no longer sexy.

People are dying on the highway out to Fort McMurray, for which there's no funding for, and you want the government to pay for an arena. Government's role is to provide essential services which a private business cannot.

You're consistent in trying to shift facts and attention, but the quality of your arguments are very poor. "The government wastes money so let's make a sharp philosophical shift and waste money even more blatantly on entertainment".

The NHL received BILLIONS from NBC in a broadcast deal, I'm sure they can spare $120 million for Edmonton's arena.

Under my idea, at least the arenas get built and money isn't stolen from Albertans.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Nope, way more, and it's the biggest touring acts, which makes it even worse. In the future keep an eye on bands that go to Edmonton and not Calgary.

That's not to mention the bands that skip Alberta altogether because they can't justify only going to Edmonton because they can't play the Saddledome.

Also, we get doubly screwed because of our football stadium situation. Commenwealth Stadium in Edmonton hosts major acts like ACDC, U2 and the police, that skipped Calgary because of McMAhon. Not to mention they obviously got the benifit of bigger crowds for the Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift and Bon Jovi, who al played the Dome in Calgary and Commenwealth in Edmonton.

If it's more than 1 or two, it's NOWHERE near 10. However, even at ten, the extra revenue that city might get is laughable compared to a theoretical investment that the city might make into a new arena. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars to attract what might amount to a million dollars in revenue a year? I don't think i need to explain why the idea is absurd.

Remember, people buying concert tickets doesn't bring the city revenue. City dwellers dining at restaurants before the concert doesn't increase city revenue - those people would be spending that money in the city in all likelihood anyway. People coming from out of town to spend money here brings money into the city, but what of that really comes into the city's revenue stream? Virtually nothing. Frankly, a million dollars per year in additional revenue to the city seems rather high, no matter how many extra concerts you add.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Nope, way more, and it's the biggest touring acts, which makes it even worse. In the future keep an eye on bands that go to Edmonton and not Calgary.

That's not to mention the bands that skip Alberta altogether because they can't justify only going to Edmonton because they can't play the Saddledome.

Also, we get doubly screwed because of our football stadium situation. Commenwealth Stadium in Edmonton hosts major acts like ACDC, U2 and the police, that skipped Calgary because of McMAhon. Not to mention they obviously got the benifit of bigger crowds for the Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift and Bon Jovi, who al played the Dome in Calgary and Commenwealth in Edmonton.

Didn't Ozzy perform at McMahon a while back? If so, why don't acts come to McMahon more often? They should still be able to make good coin from that.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Didn't Ozzy perform at McMahon a while back? If so, why don't acts come to McMahon more often? They should still be able to make good coin from that.

Calgary's noise bylaws, and fussy McMahon neighbours.