First nations will blockade roads as part of 'Idle No More' protest

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I don't think he is painting every person with the same brush, but he is generalizing. The problem is, some of those generalizations are routed in fact. I'll highlight this in particular:

Link

The report, which is based on census data, found that 58 per cent of on-reserve aboriginal people between the ages of 20 and 24 had not graduated from high school. Among all people across Canada, the comparable 2001 rate was 16 per cent.

Once the 2012/2013 stuff starts to trickle in, we will have a better picture of the landscape, but these facts and figures are fairly alarming. They should not be ignored either or simply brushed off as racist.

I don't want to seem to brush off the impact of residential schools, but the last ones were closed in Alberta 38 years ago, in 1975. At what point do people need to move on with their lives and begin their healing, I have heard numerous talks on the topic, a fair amount end in tears. It is clear that many have not reconcilled this to date.

None of that changes the fact that deciding that someone is lazy or uneducated based solely on their race is unacceptable. And where is anyone brushing those stats off as racist? People should be judged on their merits, not their skin color. The passage I responded to was doing just that, encouraging people to stop making excuses and start taking personal responsibility.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Every group has experienced some form of racism...

With Natives it generally seems to have something to do with work ethic and alcoholism.
With the Irish, they again, have been portrayed in the past as drunks.
With Jews, its usually something to do with money.
With Catholics... its the Pope.
With Blacks... its.... just too many to list.
With the French.... well we won't go there.
With the Chinese... its their driving ability.
and the list goes on.

Nothing special about First Nations people.

So let me get this straight: We should tolerate racism towards one group because every other group has been subjected to it? How about we just don't tolerate any racism period? Asking a lot, I know...

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by valo403

None of that changes the fact that deciding that someone is lazy or uneducated based solely on their race is unacceptable. And where is anyone brushing those stats off as racist? People should be judged on their merits, not their skin color. The passage I responded to was doing just that, encouraging people to stop making excuses and start taking personal responsibility.

You missed the part where he said "generalizing" based on the stats that he provided. 58% not graduating High school you can make that generalization because that is the majority and is based on hard numbers

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

So "whiteys" (by whiteys I mean anyone nont FN) are beating FN woman more as a percentage than they are beating non FN women?

Assuming the job type and income level are factored in fairly as a % of the total population?

Do you have a link to any statistics. I assume since you replied "Absolutely" that you must have seen statistics somewhere for this.

I suspect that FN women are assaulted more often by FN people than by non-FN people. Don't have the documentation to prove this but this fact (assault upon there own) generally seems to hold true within all ethnic groups.

.... unless for some reason FN women are the exception to the rule.

[polak]

Stereotypes are wrong, Except if you're working airport security...
http://forward.com/articles/122781/i...-envy-is-hard/

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I suspect that FN women are assaulted more often by FN people than by non-FN people. Don't have the documentation to prove this but this fact (assault upon there own) generally seems to hold true within all ethnic groups.

.... unless for some reason FN women are the exception to the rule.

You would never find any accurate documentation to support that, whether it's FN or any other Ethnic group. Let's face it, when it comes to violence against another race as opposed to race on race there will be more likelihood that one will be reported over the other as unfortunate as that may be.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

So let me get this straight: We should tolerate racism towards one group because every other group has been subjected to it? How about we just don't tolerate any racism period? Asking a lot, I know...

Not saying we should tolerate it.... just saying its a fact of life and has been since the dawn of man. Most of us have, or our ancestors have, been subject to racism. I suspect that even some natives are racist towards others and if they aren't there ancestors probably were... even within different North American aboriginal groups.

What I'm basically saying is that nobody is without sin, when it comes to racism. We all have that cross to bear.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by return to the red

You missed the part where he said "generalizing" based on the stats that he provided. 58% not graduating High school you can make that generalization because that is the majority and is based on hard numbers

So if 50% + 1 of a certain population engage in x behavior it's okay to generalize the entire population?

[polak]

Originally Posted by valo403

So if 50% + 1 of a certain population engage in x behavior it's okay to generalize the entire population?

Is it wrong to say then that there is a 50% + 1 chance that someone entering the same situation will fall in to that stat?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

Is it wrong to say then that there is a 50% + 1 chance that someone entering the same situation will fall in to that stat?

I think treating human beings as if they can be fit into easily quantifiable boxes is idiotic.

[polak]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think treating human beings as if they can be fit into easily quantifiable boxes is idiotic.

That's a very fair and true statement.

I'm just saying, statistically speaking, if you were to paint the whole group with that brush, you'd be right more often then not. Is it racist to point that out?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by valo403

So if 50% + 1 of a certain population engage in x behavior it's okay to generalize the entire population?

Do you honestly think most people fall under these extremes?

Do you honestly believe 1stLand and guys like him believe that all Aboriginals don't work hard or are poor and uneducated?

Probably not.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think treating human beings as if they can be fit into easily quantifiable boxes is idiotic.

Is it fair, no.

Does it happen, absolutely

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm just saying, statistically speaking, if you were to paint the whole group with that brush, you'd be right more often then not. Is it racist to point that out?

Um yeah it kind of is...

[polak]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Um yeah it kind of is...

How so?

If I'm going off hard evidence then how is it racist?

If you were to tell me that statistically, 51% of Polish people were unemployed or something and you actually had proof, I wouldn't call you a racist... It's a fact.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by polak

How so?

If I'm going off hard evidence then how is it racist?

If you were to tell me that statistically, 51% of Polish people were unemployed or something and you actually had proof, I wouldn't call you a racist... It's a fact.

Then you can correctly say "51% of polaks are unemployed bums". Just don't say "All polaks are unemployed bums". Most is just as dangerous a word because most people apply north of 85% to the word most.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Then you can correctly say "51% of polaks are unemployed bums". Just don't say "All polaks are unemployed bums". Most is just as dangerous a word because most people apply north of 85% to the word most.

Polak can be a derogatory term.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Do you honestly think most people fall under these extremes?

Do you honestly believe 1stLand and guys like him believe that all Aboriginals don't work hard or are poor and uneducated?

Probably not.

Well that comment wasn't in response to 1stLand, and he's since clarified his previous comment, so no, I do not.

[Rerun]

People's opinions and prejudices are colored by their experiences in life.

Let me tell you my story...

I grew up in southern Ontario... Belleville to be exact. Its a town just off Lake Ontario about 120 miles east of Toronto. At the time I lived there it had a population of about 30,000. It was situated very close to the Tyendenaga Reserve (Mohawk).

The high school I went to had numerous native students that were bused in from the reserve, just as many non native students were bused in from the surrounding countryside.

Not once in the 5 years that I attended my high school did I see an incident of racism towards a native student. They were just like everyone else... except their name was either Green, Maracle, or Brant. They came to school ever day, did their homework every day, graduated like everyone else, and some, like some non-natives, went on to post-secondary education. They played high school sports, hung out with different groups of people, and had various interests just like all the non-natives at my school.

In short, I didn't see them as being anything different. They were just fellow students.

Then I moved to Calgary in my early 20's in the late '70s. I was in for a bit of an eye opener. It was the first time I saw passed out drunks in public downtown parks... some were white but the majority were native. Chances are if I was being pestered for money, it was a native that was doing it. Now this wouldn't seem odd if natives were the majority in the Calgary population... but they weren't.... far from it.

So unsurprisingly, my opinions have changed over the years from the opinions that I had in my teens and early 20's living in Ontario to those that I have now, living in Calgary and elsewhere. As to living elsewhere, I lived in Yellowknife for a short while. I worked for NWT Airways. I remember one day I asked someone there why there were no Dene working for the company. I was told they tried that a few times but usually when they hired someone it worked out fine until payday.... and I'll stop there because I'll be labeled a racist for saying what I was told... even if its the truth.

So thats my story... the good and the bad. I'm sorry I have negative feelings towards some natives... it wasn't always like that for me. I have a couple of native Facebook friends from back home in Belleville and I have some guilty feelings when ever I talk to them, because of the way I feel about some of their "cousins" out here.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by return to the red

Is it fair, no.

Does it happen, absolutely

I don't think I've ever denied that