New Edmonton Arena Construction will begin in March 2014

[EddyBeers]

And the tax revenue argument is a complete shell game anyway. Any increased tax revenue that is found from the development will in all likelihood merely be taking existing tax revenue from other parts of the city and rather than having it be generated in other parts of the City it may be transferred to downtown. There is an urban sprawl/density argument for development downtown, but to say that there will be new revenue is a complete load of bs.

An example of this is the fact that bar/restaurant spending has virtually been unaffected by the lockout. Revenue just shifted from establishments near arenas to establishments further away from arenas. In the aggregate there has been no change. Same thing will happen with any new tax revenues supposedly generated by a new arena, it will just be shifted from one part of the City to another part of the City.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

And the tax revenue argument is a complete shell game anyway. Any increased tax revenue that is found from the development will in all likelihood merely be taking existing tax revenue from other parts of the city and rather than having it be generated in other parts of the City it may be transferred to downtown. There is an urban sprawl/density argument for development downtown, but to say that there will be new revenue is a complete load of bs.

An example of this is the fact that bar/restaurant spending has virtually been unaffected by the lockout. Revenue just shifted from establishments near arenas to establishments further away from arenas. In the aggregate there has been no change. Same thing will happen with any new tax revenues supposedly generated by a new arena, it will just be shifted from one part of the City to another part of the City.

I could see the argument that an arena could help a city if it were to bring in a new major league sports franchise and bring the city into big league status but that's not what a new arena in Edmonton would do.

Also in the US many metropolitan areas are composed of several cities all fighting for tax dollars. Sort of like Phoenix where Glendale has built sports facilities to spur development in their city instead of the cities of Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe, Mesa, Gilbert, etc. Edmonton doesn't have this issue either.

[chalms04]

http://www.630ched.com/news/edmonton...spx?ID=1867144

Bettman in Stabmonton this weekend, "talks were positive."

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by chalms04

Bettman in Stabmonton this weekend, "talks were positive."

Is Bettman saying "talks were positive", like Donald Fehr saying "our negotiation is close"?

When it comes to these money games, I don't know what is what anymore. I am, however, fairly certain that the cost vs benefit for the Edmonton tax payer is negligible compared to the benefit the Oiler ownership will receive for the citizens of Edmonton footing the bill for this grandiose entertainment complex.

[CaptainCrunch]

Personally with the provincial government having some rather large debt and deficit problems and rumbles that its worse then what's being reported and with both major cities also having infrastructure dollar problems, I would think that most of Alberta's citizens would not want dime one going to Katz from any level of government.

[MissTeeks]

New Agreement approved by City Counsel:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...framework.html

Edmonton city councillors have voted 10-3 in favour of a new framework agreement for the downtown arena.
The proposed arena itself would cost $480 million, with the Winter Garden set at $53 million. A pedestrian corridor, LRT connection, community rink and cost of purchasing the arena lands would add $68 million to the total.
The deal calls for the city to put up $219 million, Edmonton Oilers owner Daryl Katz to put up $143 million with $114 million to come from other levels of government.
A ticket surcharge would raise another $125 million.
The latest proposal increases the city's share a "quite manageable" $5 million more compared to the October 2011 framework, said city CFO Lorna Rosen.
Some councillors worried over the so-far uncommitted $114 million.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

New Agreement approved by City Counsel:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...framework.html

So, in other words, they are no closer to getting the thing built than they were before. In fact, they seem to be asking for more money from other levels of Government now.

There will be no funds coming from other levels of government.

What a gong show.

[Icon]

"Some councillors worried over the so-far uncommitted $114 million."

Can't blame them for being worried about 1/4 of the project's cost coming from "TBD".

[The Yen Man]

Why do they need to build such an expensive arena? The whole thing is going to cost $601M. That's nuts. $480M just for the arena itself?

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So, in other words, they are no closer to getting the thing built than they were before.

There will be no funds coming from other levels of government.

Originally Posted by Icon

"Some councillors worried over the so-far uncommitted $114 million."

Can't blame them for being worried about 1/4 of the project's cost coming from "TBD".

I know it's en vogue to bash everything Edmonton here, and this process deserves its' share of ridicule, but do you really think the mayor would have allowed it to get this far down the tracks in the current format without assurances from the provincial government that the money would be provided in some fashion? Say what you want about Katz and certain members of city council (ahem.....Linda Sloan, Kerry Diotte), but Mandel isn't an idiot.

[Stay Golden]

Katz is going to have man up and come up with the other $114 million. The province is and federal government is unlikely to contribute any $ to his Oiler palace.

Edmonton says they will pony up $219mil fair, thats generous enough. Pointing out the balance will come from other levels of government $114 million.
Where else does Katz think they are referring that is going to come from his kinfolk in the Shire.

Katz is a little weasel.
I can't wait until Nenshi is forced to make a similar decision with the Flames one way or another. Of course they actually have to get off their duff and make a first proposal.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

I know it's en vogue to bash everything Edmonton here, and this process deserves its' share of ridicule, but do you really think the mayor would have allowed it to get this far down the tracks in the current format without assurances from the provincial government that the money would be provided in some fashion? Say what you want about Katz and certain members of city council (ahem.....Linda Sloan, Kerry Diotte), but Mandel isn't an idiot.

Well, it HAS happened, so, yes.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

I know it's en vogue to bash everything Edmonton here, and this process deserves its' share of ridicule, but do you really think the mayor would have allowed it to get this far down the tracks in the current format without assurances from the provincial government that the money would be provided in some fashion? Say what you want about Katz and certain members of city council (ahem.....Linda Sloan, Kerry Diotte), but Mandel isn't an idiot.

You must be new to the whole politics game. What you are describing is exactly what happens all the time, in Edmonton or any other city. They wash their hands of responsibility if the thing doesn't get built, since they can feign ignorance. "Well, we approved our part! It's the feds and provincial government who wouldn't give us the funding!".

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Well, it HAS happened, so, yes.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

You must be new to the whole politics game. What you are describing is exactly what happens all the time, in Edmonton or any other city. They wash their hands of responsibility if the thing doesn't get built, since they can feign ignorance. "Well, we approved our part! It's the feds and provincial government who wouldn't give us the funding!".

We'll see I guess.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Katz is going to have man up and come up with the other $114 million. The province is and federal government is unlikely to contribute any $ to his Oiler palace.

Edmonton says they will pony up $219mil fair, thats generous enough. Pointing out the balance will come from other levels of government $114 million.
Where else does Katz think they are referring that is going to come from his kinfolk in the Shire.

Katz is a little weasel.
I can't wait until Nenshi is forced to make a similar decision with the Flames one way or another. Of course they actually have to get off their duff and make a first proposal.

I doubt Katz will pay anything close to that. These guys are smart businessmen and know how to make other people, especially public authorities pay for things.

When all is said and done, Katz will pay less than his share and the City and Province will pay a lot more.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Katz is going to have man up and come up with the other $114 million. The province is and federal government is unlikely to contribute any $ to his Oiler palace.

Edmonton says they will pony up $219mil fair, thats generous enough. Pointing out the balance will come from other levels of government $114 million.
Where else does Katz think they are referring that is going to come from his kinfolk in the Shire.

Katz is a little weasel.
I can't wait until Nenshi is forced to make a similar decision with the Flames one way or another. Of course they actually have to get off their duff and make a first proposal.

The city councillors have voted 10-3 in favour of the revised deal. Shovels are expected in the ground by summer 2013. Expected date of completion is 2016 before the start of the NHL season.

The breakdown:

The final price tag at $601-million (480 arena and 121 million for LRT, Winter Garden). The mayor is very confident that the funding will not be an issue from the Provincial government.

"Edmonton taxpayers would pay $219-million toward the 18,559-seat facility. The Oilers’ share would be $143-million. Another $125-million would come from a ticket tax that wouldn’t exceed seven per cent of the total cost of a ducat.

Another $107-million is still being sought from the province, along with $7-million from the feds.
Construction on the rink would begin in August and the new facility would open in 2016.

Coun. Tony Caterina said the missing $107-million from the province is the elephant in the room..."


http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...rs-arena-deal/

[Joborule]

I blame the Oilers seeking provincial funding for delaying the Flames new arena.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

You must be new to the whole politics game. What you are describing is exactly what happens all the time, in Edmonton or any other city. They wash their hands of responsibility if the thing doesn't get built, since they can feign ignorance. "Well, we approved our part! It's the feds and provincial government who wouldn't give us the funding!".

Yep, pushing blame/responsibility is politics 101.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I blame the Oilers seeking provincial funding for delaying the Flames new arena.

With enough corporate funding (and really all it would take would be a natural gas price boost), I don't see the Flames having as much an issue with funding in Calgary as the Oilers do.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

We'll see I guess.

My prediction:

we'll really see 2 or 3 years from now, when Calgary's new arena is well underway, and Edmonton's arena hasn't even started construction - or perhaps has been significantly scaled back to make it work with the funding they've got.

I still get the feeling that nothing will be done in Edmonton while Katz owns the team.