"The Edmonton Oilers are a useless franchise"

[Insta]

Most Oilers fans think the Oilers finish in the 7-10 range. I don't see how that would be considered delusional. The way you guys talk you would think Oilers fans had been picking their team to be top 3 in the west.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by DarkSaturn

I'm just pointing out that there still seems to be an awful lot of doubt about Eberle's game, despite the fact that he seems to meet or exceed expectations at every level.

I agree that it's probably unlikely that he will maintain a 19% shooting percentage moving forward, but all signs point to him being an above average shooter.

I agree, but like I said there's a big difference between shooting 14.5% and shooting 19%. That would've been a matter of 7-8 goals last year. Eberle will continue to be a very good hockey player, but if he wants to score 35 goals a season he's going to have to produce more chances and take more shots. Essentially he's going to have to keep improving his game just to maintain his scoring pace from last year.

Why did Stamkos only shot 12.7% in his, if he's a 17% shooter moving forward (almost exactly the number he put up in his second season). I'm not actually suggesting Eberle is on the same level as Stamkos, just that for a player with only 2 years in the league, I'm going to give more weight to their 2nd year statistics than their first. In this case we also have some third year statistics that rightfully deserve an asterisk as they are AHL numbers, but they continue to paint a picture that Eberle can and will shoot a higher percentage than his peers, even though 2 of those peers happen to be first overalls (soon to be 3).

Because shooting % (like a lot of statistics) takes a number of years to normalize. Stamkos has shot at a 17ish% pace and above for three years in a row now. Combine that with the fact that you can clearly see his shooting ability is the best of the generation and it's logical that he's a guy that has a shooting percentage way above the pack. Eberle just isn't a generational talent so there's no reason to believe it's not just a high year over him being a massive exception to the rule. It's not "doubting Eberle" - it's just looking at the situation rationally with an eye on history and the rest of the league.

The AHL numbers to me mean nothing. The guy is playing on a line with 2 other bonifide NHLers - probably the two other best players in the AHL. So not only is the competition level way down, but his quality of linemates is still high end NHL. Of course he's going to shoot at a ridiculous rate. Eberle will very likely shoot at a rate above his peers - but that means 14-15% which would put in easily in the top 20 in the league.

[DarkSaturn]

Originally Posted by JayP

Because shooting % (like a lot of statistics) takes a number of years to normalize. Stamkos has shot at a 17ish% pace and above for three years in a row now. Combine that with the fact that you can clearly see his shooting ability is the best of the generation and it's logical that he's a guy that has a shooting percentage way above the pack. Eberle just isn't a generational talent so there's no reason to believe it's not just a high year over him being a massive exception to the rule. It's not "doubting Eberle" - it's just looking at the situation rationally with an eye on history and the rest of the league.
.

'Generational Talent' is a hard thing to quantify. Stamkos obviously came in with a higher pedigree than Eberle, and played with better linemates right off the bat (Eberle spent a lot of games alongside Horcoff and Smyth), and Stamkos also excelled at a younger age. Just because there are lots of examples of players having an outlier season in terms of shooting percentage doesn't mean we should assume that any player not deemed a 'Generational Talent' having a great season is going to be an anomaly.

Everything I've seen from Eberle tells me he has the qualities to be the best player on the Oilers, maybe his offensive peak isn't as high as the others (though it remains to be seen), but he seems to have the best intangibles as well. If there is a player he should be modeling himself on it's probably Yzerman. Yzerman was an 80-100 point player for his first four years (putting him around 12th to 20th in league scoring) shooting at a reasonable percentage but only taking around 210 shots a season. He then broke out as a high volume shooter for 4 or 5 seasons (and probably would have some scoring titles if not for playing in the Gretzky/Lemieux era) before returning back to numbers closer to his earlier seasons.

I'm not saying the Eberle = Yzerman, only that I believe that would be the absolute best case scenario, and that I do think that he stands a chance to fill that type of role on the Oilers as both an potent offensive weapon, but also as the 2 way and leadership keystone of the franchise.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DarkSaturn

'Generational Talent' is a hard thing to quantify. Stamkos obviously came in with a higher pedigree than Eberle, and played with better linemates right off the bat (Eberle spent a lot of games alongside Horcoff and Smyth), and Stamkos also excelled at a younger age. Just because there are lots of examples of players having an outlier season in terms of shooting percentage doesn't mean we should assume that any player not deemed a 'Generational Talent' having a great season is going to be an anomaly.

Everything I've seen from Eberle tells me he has the qualities to be the best player on the Oilers, maybe his offensive peak isn't as high as the others (though it remains to be seen), but he seems to have the best intangibles as well. If there is a player he should be modeling himself on it's probably Yzerman. Yzerman was an 80-100 point player for his first four years (putting him around 12th to 20th in league scoring) shooting at a reasonable percentage but only taking around 210 shots a season. He then broke out as a high volume shooter for 4 or 5 seasons (and probably would have some scoring titles if not for playing in the Gretzky/Lemieux era) before returning back to numbers closer to his earlier seasons.

I'm not saying the Eberle = Yzerman, only that I believe that would be the absolute best case scenario, and that I do think that he stands a chance to fill that type of role on the Oilers as both an potent offensive weapon, but also as the 2 way and leadership keystone of the franchise.

No it's not - you look at a generation of players and you find the best one.

[DarkSaturn]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No it's not - you look at a generation of players and you find the best one.

Okay, so then Stamkos isn't a generational talent?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DarkSaturn

Okay, so then Stamkos isn't a generational talent?

No he is not - he isn't even the best player in the league today (never mind for his generation)

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No he is not - he isn't even the best player in the league today (never mind for his generation)

He may not be Crosby but Stamkos is very, very good. I would say one of the best players of this generation without a doubt.

[oilfanforever]

Originally Posted by Username: Flames

Canuck fan who's jealous of the Oilers' young players. Especially since the Canucks have no real prospects. Give them a few years and the media will start talking about the Canucks like they have about the Flames over the past few years.

Total troll article, but still brought up some good points. Oilers totally should not have burned RHN's 1st ELC year. He was way too small to play last year and injured his shoulder. I won't be surprised if that shoulder bugs him for the rest of his career. Also, Eberle has been overhyped. I feel bad for the guy because I think he's a good player, but I don't believe he's as clutch as everyone seems to think he is.

RNH didn't injure his shoulder because he was too small to play in the NHL. He fell awkwardly into the boards. It could have happened in Red Deer, the ODR or anywhere there is ice and boards. He was close to a PPG - not sure how anyone can say that he wasn't ready for the NHL.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No he is not - he isn't even the best player in the league today (never mind for his generation)

60 goals! How many players have done that recently?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I have rotten timing as an Oiler fan to have gone back as a fulltime Jets fan... but I still think it's laughable my friends and family up in E-town are predicting such a great turn around for the Oil and a Flames basement finish. Iggy is still Iggy and Kipper will again give the Flames a chance every night. The Jets and Oilers are still on the outside looking in, in my opinion. I love Trouba and Scheiffele though; Winnipegs building very well... where as Edmonton seems to be building a team that would dominate in a shoot out only format. Best of luck either way

i concur.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

60 goals! How many players have done that recently?

Makes him the Rocket Richard winner and an awesome player, but it doesn't make him a generational talent.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Makes him the Rocket Richard winner and an awesome player, but it doesn't make him a generational talent.

Do you think Ovechkin is a generational talent? Because I'd pick Stamkos over Ovie every time.

[Captain_Obvious]

Originally Posted by boggledepot

I wouldn't go so far as saying the Oilers are useless, however I would go so far as saying the Oilers are the most annoying franchise in the NHL. I have nothing against their players. I don't hate Oiler fans (fans in Alberta are pretty delusion about their teams in general).

WOW is that deliciously ironic and hilarious coming from a Canucks fan.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Do you think Ovechkin is a generational talent? Because I'd pick Stamkos over Ovie every time.

No. I think the phrase is over-used.

I don't even think Crosby deserves it right now (though if he could stay healthy and re-establish his clear dominance for a period of time, he would).

A generational talent is someone who is clearly better than his peers (with a gap in between) and is so for many years.

Lidstrom is a generational talent. And Lemieux (even though his career happened to partially overlap 99s).

Oh, and I would rather have Stamkos than Ovechkin as well.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

This is written by Thomas Drance, a Canucks blogger, and one of the more accomplished stats nerds writing for the Nation and NHLNumbers. Why he decided to do a troll hit piece on the oilers, I am unclear. Perhaps I shall ask him.

Drance (the author of the article on which this thread is based, remember that thing?) got back to me - apparently he's been pitching Vice a weekly column called "Net Work" which is supposed to be a hockey / social media thing, and as a result of the reaction to this he may now get it. So that's the answer to that, anyway.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No he is not - he isn't even the best player in the league today (never mind for his generation)

I said goal scorer/sniper. Stamkos isn't the best player in the league, but its hard to say anyone is a better goal scorer than him after last year.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by oilfanforever

RNH didn't injure his shoulder because he was too small to play in the NHL. He fell awkwardly into the boards. It could have happened in Red Deer, the ODR or anywhere there is ice and boards. He was close to a PPG - not sure how anyone can say that he wasn't ready for the NHL.

Either way, it is a good idea to bring teenage players into the NHL onto bad teams and expect them to not run into issues.

RNH might turn out okay, but tons of other players have been ruined by teams who brought them up too fast.

FDW can rail all he wants about 'owning' me in this thread, but the fact still is that competent teams like Detroit let their players properly develop before they have them play on the top line and be their 'top player.'

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Azure

Either way, it is a good idea to bring teenage players into the NHL onto bad teams and expect them to not run into issues.

RNH might turn out okay, but tons of other players have been ruined by teams who brought them up too fast.

FDW can rail all he wants about 'owning' me in this thread, but the fact still is that competent teams like Detroit let their players properly develop before they have them play on the top line and be their 'top player.'

You'd have to go back to 1999 to find a 1st overall pick who you could argue was damaged by being in the NHL at 18.

But it didn't seem to hurt Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Hall, Kovalchuk, Nash, Tavares, Lecavalier, Thornton, etc.

I doubt it's going to happen to a guy that finished with 52 points in 62 games and was injured by a freak fall.

[Red Slinger]

All of those guys were more physically mature. Same thing happened to Brule. Not suggesting they're the same player, just similar physical stature when they came in the league.

[Corral]

yup. those goals tonight (jan 20) by eberle and hemsky on the Canucks. Real useless. Be a while till we see that sort of offence on the Flames.