TSN says Flames 14th

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Oilers fan and I agree.

The top line is good offensively, but questionable on the defensive end. The defense is abysmal, the bottom 6 is easily the worst in the league, the 2nd line is big wild card and Dubnyk/Coaching still have a lot to prove. I hope for two more top 5 picks to fill in some holes and then try to make the playoffs.

I think the oiler have acquired the talent that is hardest to get - which is first line forward talent. So yeah they have that major piece in place, like you said until the defence and goalie position get sorted out they will have trouble coming out of the bottom of the standing.

it's not a matter of collecting more top 5 picks for the oilers. They need to start getting some players out of other rounds in the draft. Can only draft in the bottom of the league for so long before the top players on the team get sick of losing.

[calgaryred]

Flames are going to be hurting this year but think the team will finish 12th spot

[magicpixels]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Thank you - I have been meaning to post something similar...

People say: Iginla should go win a cup.

Okay, exactly which team is that with? The Penguins are the cup favourites at about 7-1... hardly a sure thing.

You can probably narrow it down to 3 or 4 teams in each conference, from which you are LIKELY (but by no means certain) to get a winner. Out of that, you have to pick ONE with which you can make a deal that makes sense.

Chastising Iginla for wanting to remain a Flame is deplorable.

Well if that's the case I guess Iginla isn't a god and our team would be just as good without him.

Iginla himself makes any of the teams he'd go to better. He'd give them a better chance to win.

Subtract Schenn. Add Iginla. Team is significantly better.

I'd personally prefer to send him to Pittsburgh and get Sutter + in return.

Fact is it's reasonable that there are 4-5 teams you could trade him to that would be cup favorites.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

Well if that's the case I guess Iginla isn't a god and our team would be just as good without him.

Iginla himself makes any of the teams he'd go to better. He'd give them a better chance to win.

Subtract Schenn. Add Iginla. Team is significantly better.

I'd personally prefer to send him to Pittsburgh and get Sutter + in return.

Fact is it's reasonable that there are 4-5 teams you could trade him to that would be cup favorites.

The Sutter era ended bro.

[oldschoolcalgary]

hilarious, the people that think the media go out of their way to hate on the Flames. Agree or disagree with their prediction, but to cite some media conspiracy is amusing.

Most picked us to miss the playoffs last year, and there was the same grousing of "the Flames will prove them wrong" or "Awesome, more bulletin material"...and guess what? we missed the playoffs.

Reasons for optimism? A guy Detroit didn't think was worth resigning. A 28 year old who has never played in north america. A offensive dman who is a defensive liability. A coach who hasn't coached in the NHL for over 3 years. A system the players have had all of 5 days to digest...

Baertshi is legit, but all the other reason for optimism are complete unknowns at this point in time... Is it any surprise the media isn't convinced? No, its not a conspiracy

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

A guy Detroit didn't think was worth resigning.

...wouldn't that sentence be true of any newly acquired UFA?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...wouldn't that sentence be true of any newly acquired UFA?

not if it were a bidding war for a guy that was wanted by lots of teams....

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

not if it were a bidding war for a guy that was wanted by lots of teams....

Who's to say other teams didn't want Hudler?

[dino7c]

Hudler was 2nd on the team in goals...pretty sure they wanted him back. Although Detroit lost him and their best two d-men and are better according to these "experts"

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Reasons for optimism? A guy Detroit didn't think was worth resigning. A 28 year old who has never played in north america. A offensive dman who is a defensive liability. A coach who hasn't coached in the NHL for over 3 years. A system the players have had all of 5 days to digest...

Baertshi is legit, but all the other reason for optimism are complete unknowns at this point in time... Is it any surprise the media isn't convinced? No, its not a conspiracy

I understand what your saying, but the problem with the media is it likes to hype the fashionable, sexy teams. The Phoenix Coyotes came pretty close to winning it all last year, and after three seasons of beating the odds, they get no respect. The Coyotes don't have any superstars, but they do know how win close games. Fortunately for the Flames, and this is why I'm optimistic, they do have superstars, in fact two. If the Flames can get a bit of that Coyote mojo, playing the game with a pack mentality, they'll be substantially better than the media has placed them.

A Flames team playing well will actually be a little annoying because the media will talk about how good such-and-such is playing, or how such-and-such is the most under-rated player in the game or resurrected his career, and for people who follow the team, we'll think: "well, we've kinda been saying that all along, but nobody was listening, everybody was just following stat lines."

[dino7c]

fact is the Flames would have knocked the stanley cup champs out of a playoff spot with a couple shootout goals and maybe the odd OT winner. Regulation wins they were up there with the best. And to me this is a better team than last year...can't be mad about an opinion but use some logic please.

[Corral]

14th seems about right. Its embarrassing that we have almost the highest payroll too. Expensive mediocrity.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hudler was 2nd on the team in goals...pretty sure they wanted him back. Although Detroit lost him and their best two d-men and are better according to these "experts"

what Detroit couldn't match calgary's offer of 4 million per year? The word even before the season was over was that Detroit wasn't planning to try to resign him.

And this after a career year?

obviously you guys don't think that's strange, but I raises questions for me.

[dammage79]

I just do not see PHX and DET being better than the Flames this year. So that bumps the Flames up to 12. EDM has a TON of young raw firepower but their top 7 D are suspect and their depth is even worse. Dubnyk is going to step up and prove to be a surefire number one? Probably not. See him being more of a Chris Mason type goalie, serviceable but not likely to carry the load or single handedly win games for you. So the Flames will finish higher than EDM which puts us at 11.

Are the Flames going to do worse than Anaheim? No, their second line is ancient, their really good goalie gets hurt every second day, and their D is mixed with young good kids learning the game and some meh type career D. Souray wont get you to the playoffs. Flames in tenth now.

Now we're in the mix with COL, MINN, DAL and NSH. Dallas got older and less gritty last season and now have leaned more towards giving their young D steady minutes. Does Derek Roy and Jagr and Whitney get them into 6-8 spot? Not so confident. I really like Kari Lehtonen a lot and he can steal games, Louie Eriksson and Jamie Benn would have to have really good years to push this team in.

COL, Young, and just as full of scoring talent as EDM, with a much better D core. But I think their coach sucks and their goaltending is worst in the division. Flames Should be better than COL. Flames are in ninth now.

Has NSH gotten better this year? No, they stayed pretty much the same. Losing Tootoo wont hurt as they have Gaustad to replace, losing Suter hurt immensely as I think their younger D like Ellis need a little more seasoning before really making an impact. Rinne is all world so moving ahead of NSH will be tough.

I guess what it all comes down to for me is how the Flames fare against Minnesota. With the addition of one superstar and a stud D man does that push them over the Flames? Goaltending is Equal, Flames have the edge in their top six D and D depth. Advantage to the Wild for their top six forwards. Although it will be interesting to see the ROTY battle between Granlund and Sven.

Minnesota and the season series against them will tell us where the flames will place this year. Essentially fighting for second in the division and whoever wins that battle gets a playoff spot.

[magicpixels]

You just emphasized the main issue with most hockey fans on Calgary Puck. We look at a team on paper and think it's a good team. So what's wrong with Calgary?

1. Our Coach Sucks, nobody outside Calgary would have hired him.
2. Our star players are only getting older.
3. We have some weak guy on D.
4. Good chance Hudler, Cervenka, Baerstchi, Wideman don't score 20 goals combined.
5. We've had less than a week to learn an entire new system.
6. Our core players and team in general get off to slow starts.

See where this list goes. A lot of negatives regarding the flames as well as other teams. The flames have a range that most people have put them in and it's 11th to 14th. There isn't any inaccurate about that.

You are literally talking about 4-6 points being the difference between 9th and 14th place so there is nothing wrong with 14th and if anything you should be hoping we finish in that spot as it's going to give us a shot at MaKinnon, Drouin and Jones.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

You just emphasized the main issue with most hockey fans on Calgary Puck. We look at a team on paper and think it's a good team. So what's wrong with Calgary?

1. Our Coach Sucks, nobody outside Calgary would have hired him.
2. Our star players are only getting older.
3. We have some weak guy on D.
4. Good chance Hudler, Cervenka, Baerstchi, Wideman don't score 20 goals combined.
5. We've had less than a week to learn an entire new system.
6. Our core players and team in general get off to slow starts.

See where this list goes. A lot of negatives regarding the flames as well as other teams. The flames have a range that most people have put them in and it's 11th to 14th. There isn't any inaccurate about that.

You are literally talking about 4-6 points being the difference between 9th and 14th place so there is nothing wrong with 14th and if anything you should be hoping we finish in that spot as it's going to give us a shot at MaKinnon, Drouin and Jones.

Hudler, Wideman and Sven alone will produce more goals than that. To say four players wont be able to produce 20 goals when two of them are proven points producers is just silly. I am not Biased and am well aware of the Flames' shortcomings.

You cannot convince me in any way that a coach that took a far inferior team like the thrashers to their first and ONLY playoff appearance, sucks. The sentence I just typed above debunks your comment right there.

Slow starts are common in many other teams as well, not just the Flames. In the past the Flames flew as Jarome flew, this year there is secondary scoring help, much better than Moss, TKO and Jokinen.

I never said the Flames D was perfect, Sure there are weaknesses, just less weaknesses than say the Oilers, or Anaheim, Dallas or even DET for that matter. Depth will be huge this season and the Flames have an abundance of Depth which is a good thing.

And if Kipper is an aging star goalie, I would still rather have him in net than Varlamov , Dubnyk or 24 other goalies in the league.

[magicpixels]

Maybe do some research regarding Hartley in Atlanta. What he did was a huge under achievement when you consider those teams were going out and paying to get players in all while playing in the weakest division in the league.

Hudler is a classic case of a player that has inflated stats as a result of playing with players significantly more talented than he is. It's not impossible for us to see the Hudler who scored 10 goals in the 2010-2011 campaign. It's actually a more realistic expectation the he will score 6-8 goals this season.

If you get an average season out of Wideman you can expect 4-5 goals. Granted he will likely cost you more than 5-6 goals as his D game isn't so great.

Then we have Sven. Everyone expect him to be lights out. Nobody knows what will happen. If he scores just 9 goals it would be an absolutely monumental. It's more likely he goes between hot and cold stretches as well he's a rookie and again a good expectation is 6-8 goals.

Cervenka again, will either not play in a flames game at all or will play in fewer than 25% of the games during the season.

Dont tell me you think Hudler is going to put up 15 when he doesn't have Zetterburg, Datsyuk and Franzen feeding him the puck. Your living in a fair world if you think he's capable of being a leader.

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

You just emphasized the main issue with most hockey fans on Calgary Puck. We look at a team on paper and think it's a good team. So what's wrong with Calgary?

1. Our Coach Sucks, nobody outside Calgary would have hired him.
2. Our star players are only getting older.
3. We have some weak guy on D.
4. Good chance Hudler, Cervenka, Baerstchi, Wideman don't score 20 goals combined.
5. We've had less than a week to learn an entire new system.
6. Our core players and team in general get off to slow starts.

See where this list goes. A lot of negatives regarding the flames as well as other teams. The flames have a range that most people have put them in and it's 11th to 14th. There isn't any inaccurate about that.

You are literally talking about 4-6 points being the difference between 9th and 14th place so there is nothing wrong with 14th and if anything you should be hoping we finish in that spot as it's going to give us a shot at MaKinnon, Drouin and Jones.

Seth Jones, Nathan Mackinnon, and Jonathan Drouin are good players but I would rather the Flames play hard, give it their all and, perhaps, even fall short of the playoffs, then suck to the point of having a high probability of drafting first overall.

Having a top draft pick is not indicative of becoming a contender for a Stanley Cup, or even drafting the best player in his draft year. Drafting first overall is just indicative of having a bad team.

If the Flames are awful, so be it, but hoping to endure a season where games don't matter because the team is out of the playoff picture, and the players are just padding their stats for a new contract is not enjoyable.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by magicpixels

1. Our Coach Sucks, nobody outside Calgary would have hired him.

Wrong. Montreal Wanted to hire him.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

2. Our star players are only getting older.

Everyones star players are a year older, moot point.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

3. We have some weak guy on D

Don't understand what you are saying here.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

4. Good chance Hudler, Cervenka, Baerstchi, Wideman don't score 20 goals combined.

Hudler has broken 20 goals more than once. Wideman has had double didget goals in 4 of his last 5 seasons. Each payer managing 5 goals seems more than reasonable. Math says you're wrong, again.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

5. We've had less than a week to learn an entire new system..

Teams change coaches all the time, sometimes in the middle of the season, nothing unique to the flames here.

Originally Posted by magicpixels

6. Our core players and team in general get off to slow starts...

By "core" I assume you mean Iginla and Kipper. Kipper starts fine so I don't know why you would mention him. And yea iginla starts slow...big deal.

I'll give you 1 for 6. Keep working on your flames bashing and come back next week to try again.

[You Need a Thneed]

If inks doesn't have slow starts, he has slow Octobers and Novembers. Those months are past.