"The Edmonton Oilers are a useless franchise"

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The guy even walks with his head down.

Between Hall and Yakupov, I wonder which graduate of the David Branch School of Paying No Attention To Your Surroundings will get clobbered first. Eberle and Nugent-Hopkins have good spacial awareness. Those two do not. The Oilers' chances of taking a quantum leap up to 25th overall will depend on whether one or both of those two gets injured because they were skating with their heads down.

Going 30 and 29th when you were building special will make most guys avoid eye contact.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

let me guess...unsustainable shooting %? didn't the stats guys say that Eberle couldn't sustain it this year in OKC?

how's that working out for them

funny thing about simply looking at stats...you can manipulate them anyway you want

kinda like "corsi king" Shawn Horcoff

So you think Eberle is honestly a 19% shooter moving forward? That would be by far the highest in the league based on career averages. The only guys in the neighborhood are really Tanguay (who's is high primarily because he only shoots when it's a high quality chance) and Stamkos (who is the best pure scorer in the league), but both are still in the 17-18% range.

No one is manipulating the stats - they're stating the obvious. Players simply don't score goals on 19% of their shots year after year. That doesn't mean Eberle can't be as productive. He'll likely just need to generate more shots & chances than he did in the past to compensate for the drop in shooting percentage.

Just because the stats say something you don't want to hear doesn't mean they're wrong.

[RITFW]

"Cognitive dissonance" is what comes to mind when I read how some of you twist yourselves into pretzels finding a way to ignore what is actually happening with the NHL hockey teams in Alberta and the direction of the Oilers and Flames organizations. Very nice to read the few who allow reality into the conversation, whether they like the situation or not. Kudos. We all have our bias but it would seem feeeeelings rule the day for most. Just sayin'.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by RITFW

"Cognitive dissonance" is what comes to mind when I read how some of you twist yourselves into pretzels finding a way to ignore what is actually happening with the NHL hockey teams in Alberta and the direction of the Oilers and Flames organizations. Very nice to read the few who allow reality into the conversation, whether they like the situation or not. Kudos. We all have our bias but it would seem feeeeelings rule the day for most. Just sayin'.

Reality?

You come here and speak all high and mighty when your team has picked first overall the last 3 years. The Oilers have literally been the worst team of all time over this time span.

Come back to me when your team actually does something.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by RITFW

"Cognitive dissonance" is what comes to mind when I read how some of you twist yourselves into pretzels finding a way to ignore what is actually happening with the NHL hockey teams in Alberta and the direction of the Oilers and Flames organizations. Very nice to read the few who allow reality into the conversation, whether they like the situation or not. Kudos. We all have our bias but it would seem feeeeelings rule the day for most. Just sayin'.

Nice use of your word of the day calender. Anyways, the Oilers will be better than the Flames one day, as this is the cyclical nature of professional sports. Will it be this year? Possibly. However maybe you should check your bravado at the door until the Oilers ACTUALLY start improving (beyond making the huge jump from 30th to 29th in the league). The Oilers have a glut of blue chip youngsters, however they are still very weak in goal and on the back end and until they address these issues, I don't think they're a playoff team yet. So before you preach to us about the proper way to build a winner, maybe you should keep the trash talk to a minimum because this is still a team that has gone 3-15 against us in the last 3 years and has been a collective 78 points behind.

Edit - Food for thought: the Oilers last 3 years have been the worst statistical 3 year span in NHL history.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by RITFW

"Cognitive dissonance" is what comes to mind when I read how some of you twist yourselves into pretzels finding a way to ignore what is actually happening with the NHL hockey teams in Alberta and the direction of the Oilers and Flames organizations. Very nice to read the few who allow reality into the conversation, whether they like the situation or not. Kudos. We all have our bias but it would seem feeeeelings rule the day for most. Just sayin'.

The oilers have finished 30th, 30th, and 29th in the league in the last three years. What direction are they moving? I suppose you could say they're trending "up" having improved from worst to second-worst over three years, but it's not particularly compelling "direction". They've pretty much been on a plateau. A really, heinously awful plateau.

If your point is that the Oilers have a chance to be good over the next few years, while the Flames are getting worse as their best players age and really need a re-building phase, I agree with you. That does not mean that the Oilers are better than the Flames right now, today. They have provided no evidence to support such an assertion.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

That does not mean that the Oilers are better than the Flames right now, today. They have provided no evidence to support such an assertion.

Oilers fans will always argue their team is better and Flames fans will always argue their team is better. The only true reliable source for what team is actually better for this season (taking into account everything) is what Vegas says...as they make money off being accurate. The Oilers are 16/1 of winning the Stanley Cup while the Flames are 40/1 according to Bodog. In fact, only 6 teams have worse odds of winning the Cup than the Flames this year.

So sadly, there is evidence to support his assertion. Unless you're arguing that you know more than Vegas bookies who are paid to be right.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Oilers fans will always argue their team is better and Flames fans will always argue their team is better. The only true reliable source for what team is actually better for this season (taking into account everything) is what Vegas says...as they make money off being accurate. The Oilers are 16/1 of winning the Stanley Cup while the Flames are 40/1 according to Bodog. In fact, only 6 teams have worse odds of winning the Cup than the Flames this year.

So sadly, there is evidence to support his assertion. Unless you're arguing that you know more than Vegas bookies who are paid to be right.

You bet. Because gambling in Vegas rarely fails.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Oilers fans will always argue their team is better and Flames fans will always argue their team is better. The only true reliable source for what team is actually better for this season (taking into account everything) is what Vegas says...as they make money off being accurate. The Oilers are 16/1 of winning the Stanley Cup while the Flames are 40/1 according to Bodog. In fact, only 6 teams have worse odds of winning the Cup than the Flames this year.

So sadly, there is evidence to support his assertion. Unless you're arguing that you know more than Vegas bookies who are paid to be right.

Vegas doesn't set odds to be right, they set odds to make money. There actually is a huge difference.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Vegas doesn't set odds to be right, they set odds to make money. There actually is a huge difference.

Agreed...there is a difference. But when one team is 16/1 and the other team is 40/1, that substantial difference means it's more than just the odds being artificially changed due to more people betting on the Oilers.

[sun]

Originally Posted by RITFW

"Cognitive dissonance" is what comes to mind when I read how some of you twist yourselves into pretzels finding a way to ignore what is actually happening with the NHL hockey teams in Alberta and the direction of the Oilers and Flames organizations. Very nice to read the few who allow reality into the conversation, whether they like the situation or not. Kudos. We all have our bias but it would seem feeeeelings rule the day for most. Just sayin'.

This time machine post has been brought to you by the year 2008!

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Oilers fans will always argue their team is better and Flames fans will always argue their team is better. The only true reliable source for what team is actually better for this season (taking into account everything) is what Vegas says

This is hilarious. Vegas odds? How about we base which team is actually better this season on actual real life results to date? Of course there is a realiable source for which team is better: whichever one finishes with more points. The only measure of the quality of a team is sustained success on the ice. Everything else is merely hype, expectation and theory.

If the Oilers finish ahead of the Flames this year - and I think there is a decent chance that they will - it will be reasonable to assert that the Oilers are better. Until that happens, you sound ridiculous.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Oilers fans will always argue their team is better and Flames fans will always argue their team is better. The only true reliable source for what team is actually better for this season (taking into account everything) is what Vegas says...as they make money off being accurate. The Oilers are 16/1 of winning the Stanley Cup while the Flames are 40/1 according to Bodog. In fact, only 6 teams have worse odds of winning the Cup than the Flames this year.

So sadly, there is evidence to support his assertion. Unless you're arguing that you know more than Vegas bookies who are paid to be right.

hahahaha. go look up the odds for last year!!!

Yeah vegas is always right...... LA had the lowest odds to win the cup before the playoffs started.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

hahahaha. go look up the odds for last year!!!

Yeah vegas is always right...... LA had the lowest odds to win the cup before the playoffs started.

I'm not basing this off any facts, but when you have a cap system with 30 teams you have much more balanced teams. Any team is able to beat any team, just look at how Calgary wins a lot against good teams, and loses a lot of games they should statistically win.

This isn't the NBA/MLB where three teams have all the best players and you can basically place odds based on how much the franchise spends on its players. This is the NHL and anything can happen. Sometimes all it takes is the right coach with the right system for the makeup of your team. L.A was a losing team until Darryl showed them how to play a big mans game.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

If the Oilers finish ahead of the Flames this year - and I think there is a decent chance that they will - it will be reasonable to assert that the Oilers are better. Until that happens, you sound ridiculous.

I was merely defending the poster who you claimed had absolutely no evidence to support his thoughts that the Oilers are going to be better this year by pointing out Vegas provides at least SOME evidence supporting his claim. So despite your outbursts laughing at how ridiculous everyone sounds for suggesting the Oilers may be a better team than us this year, I find it especially hilarious that you are in agreement by suggesting yourself that "there is a decent chance" the Oilers are the better team this year.

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by JayP

So you think Eberle is honestly a 19% shooter moving forward? That would be by far the highest in the league based on career averages. The only guys in the neighborhood are really Tanguay (who's is high primarily because he only shoots when it's a high quality chance) and Stamkos (who is the best pure scorer in the league), but both are still in the 17-18% range.

No one is manipulating the stats - they're stating the obvious. Players simply don't score goals on 19% of their shots year after year. That doesn't mean Eberle can't be as productive. He'll likely just need to generate more shots & chances than he did in the past to compensate for the drop in shooting percentage.

Just because the stats say something you don't want to hear doesn't mean they're wrong.

I'm not saying Eberle will sustain his shooting percentage but stats only tell half the story...you also got to watch the player. Eberle doesn't just flick a wrister from the blue-line...he only take shots from high % areas which leads me to believe he'll always have a high shooting percentage...will it be 19%? who knows
I get it that a lot of "stats guys" wanna be the next Bill James and their are definitely some great advance stats out there...but they simply do not tel the whole story
so dismissing a guy simply based on stats is a flawed argument

[AR_Six]

^Yeah here's the thing and this is for perspective: saying Eberle is going to maintain something resembling a 19% shooting rate is like Flames fans saying they expect Curtis Glencross to build on last year's goal totals.

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I was merely defending the poster who you claimed had absolutely no evidence to support his thoughts that the Oilers are going to be better this year by pointing out Vegas provides at least SOME evidence supporting his claim. So despite your outbursts laughing at how ridiculous everyone sounds for suggesting the Oilers may be a better team than us this year, I find it especially hilarious that you are in agreement by suggesting yourself that "there is a decent chance" the Oilers are the better team this year.

I think we're talking past each other. My point is that the Oilers have not done anything. They have not demonstrated any positive trend towards being better at hockey. We can look at them on paper, listen to pundits and hype and place a bunch of bets on them and make predictions (including mine). But until the team itself follows through on ANY of that, to take the position that they are better than the Flames is utter nonsense.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I was merely defending the poster who you claimed had absolutely no evidence to support his thoughts that the Oilers are going to be better this year by pointing out Vegas provides at least SOME evidence supporting his claim. So despite your outbursts laughing at how ridiculous everyone sounds for suggesting the Oilers may be a better team than us this year, I find it especially hilarious that you are in agreement by suggesting yourself that "there is a decent chance" the Oilers are the better team this year.

even the Flames die-hards here will admit there's a chance (maybe a significant one) the Oil finish ahead. but to us, the only evidence that matters is actual standings. Vegas odds just don't count as evidence. maybe they're more accurate than your average media prediction, but it's still a prediction.

all the bragging based on stuff that hasn't even happened yet is what pees off everyone here. be optimistic all you want, but don't act like the Dynasty has already been established until reality bears that out.

[AlbertaOiler72]

Originally Posted by AR_Six

The oilers have finished 30th, 30th, and 29th in the league in the last three years. What direction are they moving? I suppose you could say they're trending "up" having improved from worst to second-worst over three years, but it's not particularly compelling "direction". They've pretty much been on a plateau. A really, heinously awful plateau.

If your point is that the Oilers have a chance to be good over the next few years, while the Flames are getting worse as their best players age and really need a re-building phase, I agree with you. That does not mean that the Oilers are better than the Flames right now, today. They have provided no evidence to support such an assertion.

for a stats guy, you should be the one guy looking at more than just points
GF-GA went from -76 to -27....up +49

PP was 3rd in the league
PK was 14th

Pts up +12

so yes...its a huge improvement from season to season...enough for the playoffs this year? yet to be determined

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

for a stats guy, you should be the one guy looking at more than just points
GF-GA went from -76 to -27....up +49

Yeah that's a fair argument. Particularly in light of me being the one waving the "Hey guys! I know the Wild are first in the NW right now but they actually suck a lot!" flag last December.

I actually do agree that they're getting better I would just prefer some humility from the great bastion of hockey futility not named Toronto until some results (in the form of, yknow, wins) actually start piling up. They aren't better yet. They could be - this year, next, who knows. But they aren't better until they win more games.