First nations will blockade roads as part of 'Idle No More' protest

[peter12]

For anyone interested in an approach to reforming the state of aboriginal affairs in Canada, Tom Flanagan et al.'s book "Beyond the Indian Act" provides an extremely interesting argument for devolutionary steps that could be taken outside of the constitution that would allow willing bands to conduct their own affairs, and establish their own economies.

http://www.amazon.ca/Beyond-Indian-A...7936268&sr=8-3

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But he is right and he is the anti-spence.

I think property ownership going forward is the key. First of all it breaks the power monopoly of the Band Councillers. They can no longer hang your housing over your head.

Second of all, it allows them to have ownership and with that collateral, its a right that should have been granted a long time ago.

There are some dangerous words in your post. I think it is all a great idea in principle but dangerous none the less.

The argument has been made that the reserve land is for all band members including future members. If you allow ownership by individuals then you allow them the ability to sell it. If you allow it to be used as collateral then you open up the possibility that said collateral will be collected. It is possible that entire bands could be purchased by mining companies leaving the band spread out and essentially non-existent.

It was a long time ago, but at least one state had a policy to loan natives as much money as they asked for against the value of their property. Once they were sufficiently indebted they called in the loans and took the land.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Wait what

My legal responsibility extends as far as having to honor those contracts. I.E. as a taxpayer.

My own moral responsibility is as a Canadian, and my belief that as a Canadian we should help the poor and helpless. It has nothing to do with the Indian Act.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

There are some dangerous words in your post. I think it is all a great idea in principle but dangerous none the less.

The argument has been made that the reserve land is for all band members including future members. If you allow ownership by individuals then you allow them the ability to sell it. If you allow it to be used as collateral then you open up the possibility that said collateral will be collected. It is possible that entire bands could be purchased by mining companies leaving the band spread out and essentially non-existent.

It was a long time ago, but at least one state had a policy to loan natives as much money as they asked for against the value of their property. Once they were sufficiently indebted they called in the loans and took the land.

That's actually brilliant, if you could get modern bands to agree to something like that, it may be a smart solution. It not like the 1800's where they had no access to information, and didn't know what they were getting themselves into.

[Azure]

Wasn't there a huge lawsuit in the US a while back in regards to those loans?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

The argument has been made that the reserve land is for all band members including future members. If you allow ownership by individuals then you allow them the ability to sell it. If you allow it to be used as collateral then you open up the possibility that said collateral will be collected. It is possible that entire bands could be purchased by mining companies leaving the band spread out and essentially non-existent.

I don't think that ending this segregation is a bad thing. Give them the same rights as Canadians and if 100 years from now, most reserves are non existence then i think everyone is better off.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

There are some dangerous words in your post. I think it is all a great idea in principle but dangerous none the less.

The argument has been made that the reserve land is for all band members including future members. If you allow ownership by individuals then you allow them the ability to sell it. If you allow it to be used as collateral then you open up the possibility that said collateral will be collected. It is possible that entire bands could be purchased by mining companies leaving the band spread out and essentially non-existent.

It was a long time ago, but at least one state had a policy to loan natives as much money as they asked for against the value of their property. Once they were sufficiently indebted they called in the loans and took the land.

I would argue that in most cases detaching natives from their land is probably neccersary for them to grow, the migration from rural to urban has been a neccersary reality for the rest of us for 400 years.

I would argue that on some level you have to trust natives to do whatever they want with their land anyway, I can screw up my kids inheritance if I want, why should we either assume that natives will screw up or deny them the ability to. I would also argue ownership is the only way non natives will be persuaded to invest in native areas.

Personally I think treaty rights should be made individual and portable so natives can persue their dreams and aspirations anywhere in the country, not be finacially chained to some crap hole in the middle of nowhere

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

The argument has been made that the reserve land is for all band members including future members.

Future members would be children of the current members. The current members would be expected to pass on their estates to their children assuming that they are not estranged. Same as everyone else in this country.

[1stLand]

Reserves are essentially 'communes' where nobody owns anything.

Just like the 'Tragedy of the Commons", when no one is responsible or owns anything, everything turns to *hit.

Look at the pictures of Attawapiskat with Garbage strewn about everywhere and all over the roads.

You think people would have pride in their community, but no one cares about their neighbourhood. They don't own the homes, so they don't care about properties or values or neighbourhood value.

At the very least, I would have expected Chief Theresa Spence to hire someone in the band (even her partner at $850 a day) to collect garbage so her community doesnt look like such a dump.

Listening to Chief Theresa Spence address the Media today confirms my belief that she is developmentally disabled (dumb).

[burn_baby_burn]

Mining companies wouldn't be the only ones interested in native land if it became available for sale. A lot of the reserve land in southern Alberta is being rented as farm land. The Blood reserve for instance, has tens of thousands of cultivated acres. I would assume a lot of that land could be sold to farmers in a heart beat, if the owning band member didn't want to farm it himself.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Azure

Wasn't there a huge lawsuit in the US a while back in regards to those loans?

The lawsuit was about lands held in trust. The government was renting the land out and keeping the money.

[undercoverbrother]

Didn't the Stoney Nation sue the govn't back in the late to mid 90's? I seem to recall it had to do with logging on their land. In short I thought they sued the govn't for not supervising them enough and allowing them to sign clear cutting deals.


Anyone else remember this?

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Listening to Chief Theresa Spence address the Media today confirms my belief that she is developmentally disabled (dumb).

while I have not her today's address, her approach to this issue has not made me sympathetic to her cause.

As an aside, it never seases to amaze me how people who live on reserves don't really seem to care about thier living conditions. that much garbage blowing around, and screens hanging of of windows is not normal wear and tear........

[Minnie]

My sister-in-law is getting on my last nerve with this. I finally took her off my FB feed. Constant exhortations since yesterday, to 'get informed' and 'support Idle No More and Chief Spence.' Um yeah, please don't be a condescending twit and presume that people that are opposed/disagree, haven't done their research too.

[CaptainCrunch]

Ask her to explain to you how the Omnibus bill effects natural resource control for Natives, see if she's informed.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Mining companies wouldn't be the only ones interested in native land if it became available for sale. A lot of the reserve land in southern Alberta is being rented as farm land. The Blood reserve for instance, has tens of thousands of cultivated acres. I would assume a lot of that land could be sold to farmers in a heart beat, if the owning band member didn't want to farm it himself.

Heniger might buy up a large portion of the Blood Reserve considering he farms most of it and actually would have the money to do so.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Minnie

My sister-in-law is getting on my last nerve with this. I finally took her off my FB feed. Constant exhortations since yesterday, to 'get informed' and 'support Idle No More and Chief Spence.' Um yeah, please don't be a condescending twit and presume that people that are opposed/disagree, haven't done their research too.

I have had a lot of facebook friends jump on the occupy bandwagon. So far i haven't heard anything about idle

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Listening to Chief Theresa Spence address the Media today confirms my belief that she is developmentally disabled (dumb).

I disagree, the woman as been on a "hunger" strike - how else would you "appear" to the media.

[wpgflamesfan]

How can these guys legally get away with making threats such as "bring the economy to its knees" and "make investment's in the country unsafe"?

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

How can these guys legally get away with making threats such as "bring the economy to its knees" and "make investment's in the country unsafe"?

Because they are Idle threats