The Ongoing Dog Attack Mega-Thread

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

You know what is really annoying? When some neighbor decides to bring his kids up to sell almonds or popcorn or some other thing I didn't ask for, and disrupts the peace in my house on a weekend. Should put muzzles and leashes on those kids. They tend to run across the yard while the parents follow in the mini van sipping there coffee.

In fact, I'm somewhat terrified of kids. They carry disease, puke, smell and make noise. I mean, I understand they need to socialize, so maybe they could do it in a compound outside the city. That way my sphere in the city is protected.

I mean kids aren't part of society. There too young. Can't vote, don't pay taxes. Forget them! Throw them into the wild and if they come back as 18 tax paying citizens, then they can stay. Spartan style.

Or yknow..we could be reasonable about this...

God damn I wish I'd thought of this when the kids were teenagers....

[Halfcreek]

I equate muzzling a little bit to the notion (not that it's ever been pushed to my knowledge) of putting regulators on vehicles so they can't go faster thatn 110 km/hr.
Bad drivers will still be bad drivers, no matter at what speed.

For those that don't know dogs, and agressive dog often tends to become more aggresive when muzzled. Plus, as has been said, the owners who let their agressive dogs be agressive without getting training etc. will only use the muzzle as an excuse to do even less with their pet.

If we start by actually policing the current by-laws for dogs, bad owners can be found and by charging them and keeping an eye on them, I believe it will be a much greater help than banning a whole breed or making muzzles mandatory.

By the way - I'm all for agressive dogs and their owners being punnished. Some dogs are beyond help and that has to be taken care of. But to just assume all dogs are agressive because they have some bull-terrier in them, I just can't get on board with that.

[Halfcreek]

Also, those that are saying that dogs are a part of society, I think they mean that they live amoung us. They are members of the family to most who own them, the concept of keeping dogs as pets has been around forever and it's not going anywhere, so we might as well accept that when living in our society, we will, at some points, interact with dogs.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

It's their house if they don't mind their dogs barking like crazy it's up to them. I don't know how my neighbors can live with their three toddlers screaming non-stop. But it doesn't affect me all that much so whatever. I certainly hear screaming kids far more often than barking dogs in my neighborhood how do they live like that? (Yes I know dogs aren't equal to kids) but I can't understand how aot of people live the way they live.

As for owners leaving their dogs off leash in non off leash areas, that is completely unacceptable and you need to stand your ground on that. You can do it without being rude, and hopefully the owner acts accordingly.

There are bad owners, parents, drivers, etc. I don't see people calling for bans on those aspects of society when they are much more dangerous.

No one here has said that there aren't bad owners but you need to get over yourself a little bit when stating there are way more idiots out there than not. I guarantee you there are times you are out and about and you do something you may not be aware of and those around you who don't know you are thinking you are an idiot. They don't know you and are basing their judgement of you on a brief interaction.

Once again, dog attacks are very rare if you avoid dog parks, and dog owners homes it's appears to be less than half of a half of 1%.

If an offleash dog runs up to my little girl and is scaring her and the owners laugh it off...the dog gets a few kicks to the ribs at the very least.

I would venture that more than half of dog owners no control over their pets. Most love the idea of having a dog but are too lazy or stupid to put in the energy required to train one.

I still stand behind the call for criminal charges against the owners of a dog in the case of a dog attack.

I always had (trained) dogs growing up (thanks mom and dad) and cannot stand undisciplined pets (or their owners).

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

If an offleash dog runs up to my little girl and is scaring her and the owners laugh it off...the dog gets a few kicks to the ribs at the very least.

I would venture that more than half of dog owners no control over their pets. Most love the idea of having a dog but are too lazy or stupid to put in the energy required to train one.

I still stand behind the call for criminal charges against the owners of a dog in the case of a dog attack.

I always had (trained) dogs growing up (thanks mom and dad) and cannot stand undisciplined pets (or their owners).

Fair enough. But if I see a little undisiplined kid running around a store, being ignored by the parent and I decided to take your approach, I would be in jail.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

Fair enough. But if I see a little undisiplined kid running around a store, being ignored by the parent and I decided to take your approach, I would be in jail.

This is when you feed them a double espresso and give them a puppy to take home with them.

[Jbo]

My final post re: dogs for this morning, but how can you say they are not a part of society?

We have police dogs.
We have dogs in the army.
We have dogs that assist the blind.
We have dogs that do search and rescue.
We have dogs that search you at the airport.

Then we have a medical system for them. (vets...self-funded by owners I might add) We have dog sitters. We have retail around them. They live in our houses, they have there own designated parks.

So what is the qualification to be part of society?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

My final post re: dogs for this morning, but how can you say they are not a part of society?

We have police dogs.
We have dogs in the army.
We have dogs that assist the blind.
We have dogs that do search and rescue.
We have dogs that search you at the airport.

Then we have a medical system for them. (vets...self-funded by owners I might add) We have dog sitters. We have retail around them. They live in our houses, they have there own designated parks.

So what is the qualification to be part of society?

The same can be said about horses (except maybe the airport).

Until I can take a dog to court on civil or legal matter, or until they pay income tax, vote, run for office, and factor in on how our society functions, they are not part of it and do not get the same considerations.

If you said that dogs are a part of our lives whether we like it or not, that would be fair. It still wouldn't make it grounds for accepting negative dog/human interactions.

I agree with whoever mentioned that better enforcement of current laws is the way to go though. Have licensing, but with actual restrictions on who gets to own what where.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

My final post re: dogs for this morning, but how can you say they are not a part of society?

We have police dogs.
We have dogs in the army.
We have dogs that assist the blind.
We have dogs that do search and rescue.
We have dogs that search you at the airport.

Then we have a medical system for them. (vets...self-funded by owners I might add) We have dog sitters. We have retail around them. They live in our houses, they have there own designated parks.

So what is the qualification to be part of society?

They are property, with no right of citizenship.

Here is the argument about pets as property versus calling humans "pet guardians" which opens up other discussions in law.

http://cats.about.com/od/advocacy/a/petsasproperty.htm

EDIT: Purely coincidental, this is on the ABC News front page right now, a case going before the Supreme Court. http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-supre...ry?id=18186388

Cowperson

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by V

Shoot, I should have quoted you before you edited out your crazy irrational name calling rant.

And to answer your question, I wouldn't have a problem if there were just a few bad owners out there. So many owners lack control over their dogs, it's comical. I honestly don't know how they live with it. The little yippy monsters for example. I always get a kick out of the number of people with these little things that go insane whenever the doorbell rings. When I have the pleasure of selling chocolate almonds with my kids every year it always amazes me. No control at all. How do you live like that??

And the dog owners that love to let their dogs off leash in a playground so that the dog can jump all over my baby. You can't even tell the owner to leash they're dog, because they just tell you, "oh, my dog loves kids, it's fine". No, fatanuts, it's not fine.

No, there are plenty of bad dog owners. I find it surprising that it can even be argued. It's no different than any cross-section of people. There are far more idiots out there than not. Just check out the GMG thread for constant reminders. I don't know why dog owners would somehow be different.

Originally Posted by AFireInside

It's their house if they don't mind their dogs barking like crazy it's up to them. I don't know how my neighbors can live with their three toddlers screaming non-stop. But it doesn't affect me all that much so whatever. I certainly hear screaming kids far more often than barking dogs in my neighborhood how do they live like that? (Yes I know dogs aren't equal to kids) but I can't understand how aot of people live the way they live.

As for owners leaving their dogs off leash in non off leash areas, that is completely unacceptable and you need to stand your ground on that. You can do it without being rude, and hopefully the owner acts accordingly.

There are bad owners, parents, drivers, etc. I don't see people calling for bans on those aspects of society when they are much more dangerous.

No one here has said that there aren't bad owners but you need to get over yourself a little bit when stating there are way more idiots out there than not. I guarantee you there are times you are out and about and you do something you may not be aware of and those around you who don't know you are thinking you are an idiot. They don't know you and are basing their judgement of you on a brief interaction.

Once again, dog attacks are very rare if you avoid dog parks, and dog owners homes it's appears to be less than half of a half of 1%.

I think V's post actually expanded the discussion, though. You are referencing dog attacks - and fairly given the topic of this thread - but V was more talking about poor dog behaviour and bad owners in general, which is probably a natural direction for the topic and one in need of solutions as well.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

Fair enough. But if I see a little undisiplined kid running around a store, being ignored by the parent and I decided to take your approach, I would be in jail.

Only a dog owner would be try and equate a dog to a child.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think V's post actually expanded the discussion, though. You are referencing dog attacks - and fairly given the topic of this thread - but V was more talking about poor dog behaviour and bad owners in general, which is probably a natural direction for the topic and one in need of solutions as well.

There's bad dog owners, there's bad drivers, there's bad gun owners, there's bad landlords, bad tenants... I could go on, but it's kind of a pie in the sky fantasy to think there's some grand solution to these problems.

If I'm a bad dog owner, I could face fines and potentially having my dog taken away.. in extreme cases I could face potential jail time.

If I'm a bad driver, I could face fines and potentially having my car taken away... and again potential jail time.

The point is regardless of the penalties applied, there's still going to be irresponsible drivers, and there's going to be irresponsible dog owners.

[Flames_Gimp]

[QUOTE=V;4002959]

And to answer your question, I wouldn't have a problem if there were just a few bad owners out there. So many owners lack control over their dogs, it's comical. /QUOTE]

got stats to back up your claim there are a "comical" amount of bad owners with out of control dogs running around?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

There's bad dog owners, there's bad drivers, there's bad gun owners, there's bad landlords, bad tenants... I could go on, but it's kind of a pie in the sky fantasy to think there's some grand solution to these problems.

If I'm a bad dog owner, I could face fines and potentially having my dog taken away.. in extreme cases I could face potential jail time.

If I'm a bad driver, I could face fines and potentially having my car taken away... and again potential jail time.

The point is regardless of the penalties applied, there's still going to be irresponsible drivers, and there's going to be irresponsible dog owners.

Since when can we not focus on one problem because other problems exist? There are also bad governments in the world. Guess we can't talk about drinking and driving!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Since when can we not focus on one problem because other problems exist? There are also bad governments in the world. Guess we can't talk about drinking and driving!

Whoosh.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Only a dog owner would be try and equate a dog to a child.

well nothing is more annoying than undisciplined kids! I think kids should be on a leash, I've been attacked by kids but never a dog.

[Flames_Gimp]

can we ban irresponsible message board users who get banned and sign back up under new names, eh Sliver?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Only a dog owner would be try and equate a dog to a child.

Holy..

Sarcasm detector broken? I have to assume they are being sarcastic, just like I was when I brought up the comparison. Seems like you are just trolling.

Ya know, we could be reasonable about this.

Halfcreek Also, those that are saying that dogs are a part of society, I think they mean that they live amoung us. They are members of the family to most who own them, the concept of keeping dogs as pets has been around forever and it's not going anywhere, so we might as well accept that when living in our society, we will, at some points, interact with dogs.

WOW.. Thank you, I was the one who mentioned it first and that's exactly what I was talking about. Flames addiction talking about dogs following our laws and customs and would happen if people acted like dogs, was one of the weirdest things I have read on here.

I am really glad that he pointed out if humans greeted each other the way dogs do, it would be considered anti-social, haha.

SeoulFire

If an offleash dog runs up to my little girl and is scaring her and the owners laugh it off...the dog gets a few kicks to the ribs at the very least.

I would venture that more than half of dog owners no control over their pets. Most love the idea of having a dog but are too lazy or stupid to put in the energy required to train one.

I still stand behind the call for criminal charges against the owners of a dog in the case of a dog attack.

I always had (trained) dogs growing up (thanks mom and dad) and cannot stand undisciplined pets (or their owners).

Hey you know what helps make aggressive dogs? Abuse, really solving the problem there.

If an unleashed dog is scaring your kid thats not cool, I get it. If the dog is being aggressive, I get it.

If the dog is just running around and your kid is scared and you kick it, you're a real p.o.s. That is bad ownership, and I completely agree something should be done, but wow. If you kicked a dog that wasn't being aggressive and then it bit you, I would say you got what you deserved.

Teach your child how to act around dogs they will encounter them in their life, just like you teach them how to act around traffic. Setting an example of kicking a dog that is scaring them is going to get them in trouble at some point.

Most dog owners I have been around do have a degree of control over their dogs, guess we have a stalemate on that topic, since it's based purely on our personal experience. I agree there are a lot of bad owners, but that is because there are a lot of awful people out there. I certainly don't think they are the majority, and really that's mostly just subjective anyway.

I do agree with you on untrained dogs though. It drives me crazy when someone has a dog that is completely out of control and clearly has no training at all, gives all dog owners a bad name, and can be dangerous on top of that.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Only a dog owner would be try and equate a dog to a child.

Lets have some fun with this:

Both depend on parents/owners for survival. Feeding, shelter etc.
Both require training, learning and socialization.
Both create sentimental value and attachment within there families
Both have the ability to make a mess, smell, dig through dirt, get sick.
Both can be brought up improperly, both can have bad owners or bad parents.
Both cost a ton of $$$

Bad or maladjusted dogs may attack someone.
Bad of maladjusted kids may commit crimes that hurt people.

I have neve thought of an animal as a piece of property.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

can we ban irresponsible message board users who get banned and sign back up under new names, eh Sliver?

Hey guys, if you ever want to whore for cheap thanks, string together "Sliver" and "Ban" in the same sentence. It works every time, is super original, and never gets old!