NRA calls for armed police officers in all U.S. schools

[RichKlit]

First off i must say i grew up in the country and around rifles and shotguns(i even had a homemade 22 one shot pistol) so i probably have less of an issue with guns than most, but i will say this I see no need for fully or even semi auto rifles in a civilians hands. There is no justifiable reason anyone can give me as to why they NEED a rifle with that capability, none.

That being said i would fight tooth and nail to keep my rifle and shotgun which i believe not too many would have an issue with in this forum. There are many many legitimate reasons to own and use these weapons in country life. I was very against the gun registry for all the reasons that have been discussed to the point of madness many times before by people smarter than me.

I just dont know what can be done to stop the random attacks, I think getting rid of fully and semi auto weapons is a start but for those who are dismissing putting armed guards in school due to cost dont kid yourself any measure of gun control is going to cost just as much if not more due to extenuating circumstances such as court case, registries etc. Is it worth it in my opinion yes.

As to the guards in schools, im not sure why it is being dismissed out of hand, why are there cops on patrol? Crime still happens are they deemed to be worthless? Police enforcement is incredibly expensive i dont see anyone calling for the disbandment of the Police force(well some of you may want just that haha).

I have no answers other than to take away the semi and full auto weapons but there will still be attacks, you can take away all guns the attacks will still happen homemade bombs will be used or knives etc. I also find it funny how righteous some of the Canadians are being add 250 million people to our population and lets see where we are in relation then. We have our own history of shootings and our record with the First Nations are not something to many should be proud of.

There is no question the US has a love affair with guns and i agree with Captain when he says it will take time to change that mindset but remember there are bone heads, psycho's and killers in every country the US does not hold a patent on crazy. They also have largest media in the world we see and hear everything that could and does go wrong everywhere in the US more than any country in the world.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I just dont know what can be done to stop the random attacks, I think getting rid of fully and semi auto weapons is a start but for those who are dismissing putting armed guards in school due to cost dont kid yourself any measure of gun control is going to cost just as much if not more due to extenuating circumstances such as court case, registries etc. Is it worth it in my opinion yes.

As to the guards in schools, im not sure why it is being dismissed out of hand, why are there cops on patrol? Crime still happens are they deemed to be worthless? Police enforcement is incredibly expensive i dont see anyone calling for the disbandment of the Police force(well some of you may want just that haha).

The reason that the idea of placing armed guards in schools is being dismissed, is that the mere presence of guns - regardless of the level of training, familiarity, or safety procedures - absolutely and undeniably increases the risk of death and injury by guns, therefore, they should be kept out of schools.

If there were armed guards in schools would there likely be fewer or even no mass shootings? Probably.

However, there would inevitably be accidents and incidents which would consistently cause not-so-newsworthy deaths. Oh, the first time an armed guard, or volunteer, did something dumb, or mistook a parent for an intruder, or became enraged themselves and someone died there would be a huge hew-and-cry. But then it would happen again, and there would be less outrage, and then again, and then again ...

And in a few years America would have come to accept that annually a hundred or more students, teachers, parents, and support staff would be shot and killed, either deliberately, accidentally, or self-inflicted in schools all around the country.

Because that's a better idea than repealing the 2nd amendment.

[SeeBass]

^ So with the idea of armed guards in school where are all the "slippery slope" concerns?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

First off i must say i grew up in the country and around rifles and shotguns(i even had a homemade 22 one shot pistol) so i probably have less of an issue with guns than most, but i will say this I see no need for fully or even semi auto rifles in a civilians hands. There is no justifiable reason anyone can give me as to why they NEED a rifle with that capability, none.

That being said i would fight tooth and nail to keep my rifle and shotgun which i believe not too many would have an issue with in this forum. There are many many legitimate reasons to own and use these weapons in country life. I was very against the gun registry for all the reasons that have been discussed to the point of madness many times before by people smarter than me.

I just dont know what can be done to stop the random attacks, I think getting rid of fully and semi auto weapons is a start but for those who are dismissing putting armed guards in school due to cost don't kid yourself any measure of gun control is going to cost just as much if not more due to extenuating circumstances such as court case, registries etc. Is it worth it in my opinion yes.

As to the guards in schools, im not sure why it is being dismissed out of hand, why are there cops on patrol? Crime still happens are they deemed to be worthless? Police enforcement is incredibly expensive i dont see anyone calling for the disbandment of the Police force(well some of you may want just that haha).

I have no answers other than to take away the semi and full auto weapons but there will still be attacks, you can take away all guns the attacks will still happen homemade bombs will be used or knives etc. I also find it funny how righteous some of the Canadians are being add 250 million people to our population and lets see where we are in relation then. We have our own history of shootings and our record with the First Nations are not something to many should be proud of.

There is no question the US has a love affair with guns and i agree with Captain when he says it will take time to change that mindset but remember there are bone heads, psycho's and killers in every country the US does not hold a patent on crazy. They also have largest media in the world we see and hear everything that could and does go wrong everywhere in the US more than any country in the world.

Great post. I guess I have a problem with the guards in schools because if your going to guard one you have to do it all. there are probably and I'm guessing about 260,000 schools in the United States going on some census information that I found.

I have problems with the level of training that's going to be needed, you can't use volunteers unless they're willing to go through not only a gun safety and a marksman course, but you need to put them through psychological testing and some kind of urban combat training course, because to be honest just having a guy with a gun at a school is not going to deter the true death dealing death seeking nut case.

The costs would be enormous for a program like this. The level of competency required is huge, and there's no guarantee that one or more of these guards won't actually be a killer.

You can deny it, but Pedo's get through background checks to coach youth teams, we just recently had a armed professional security guard gun down his work mates and rob a bank and nobody saw that coming, you had a military member kill his own.

Background checks and psych tests don't stop everyone but the obvious and the stupid.

I'm completely convinced that guns on site are not an answer to guns, unless your going to arm these security guards with MP10's or M16's they're going to be outgunned by these killers with what looks like advanced military grade hardware, and pistols are pretty useless in a shootout against a guy with a military grade assault rifle.

I think that the gun problem has to be fought on three fronts, the mindset in the States has to change. There's really no reason for automatic or semi automatic weapons, large capacity magazine fed weapons, hollow point and armor piercing bullets, laser and military grade sights and concealed weapons licenses. There's no reasons for gun shows where you can buy weapons on the side. You have to address this first set by changing the mindset, increasing punitive punishment for gun violence, looking at the testing process and registration process for weapons. The second amendment has to be looked at, the constitution should not be viewed as a suicide pact, or a murder enabling document.

Take a serious look at the mental health situation in the States, that speaks for itself, and when people say that these thrill killers will use other means like knives or explosives your right, but going past the point that someone said that they can make a viable explosive device in 5 hours, I would like to challenge that as I'm curious about the type of design he's talking about and what materials he's using, but that's beyond the point, guns are the greatest and quickest rage weapons ever created, especially semi and fully automatic weapons that carry lots of ammo. It has to be harder to get your hands on guns, and the mental health and background checks have to be more stringent. convicts should never be allowed to buy legal guns, nor should people with prior or current mental health issues. I think the waiting or cool down period has to be expanded to like 6 to 12 months between when you purchase and when you get your gun and the licensing price has to be high.

I also think that American's need to look at the underground gun market and be more stringent on border and harbor patrols to stop the shipments of cheap weapons from China and Asia and South America, and to also maintain a more stringent inventory requirement on domestic gun manufacturers.

Just my two cents.

Still horrified about the thought of a demented Barney Fife with a gun and either a hero complex with poor training, or a hatred of kids.

[flamesfever]

Captain, I appreciate everything you say, but those people are scared down there, and many have the idea that doing something is better than doing nothing. Even if it's not being armed to deal with someone with an automatic weapon, simply having a weapon on site may deter some.

There are established methods for recruiting auxilliary police, similar to that used to recruit RCMP officers.

And, is spite of what you say, I believe many people are willing to volunteer their time for nothing to do police work, and are usually more willing to do so, if they are trained and armed in the process. I think having an armed auxilliary police force can greatly reduce the cost of overall policing.

just my opinion

[SeeBass]

I am sure the day will come when corporate sponsors will pick up the tab.

This patdown brought to you by Pepsi

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Captain, I appreciate everything you say, but those people are scared down there, and many have the idea that doing something is better than doing nothing. Even if it's not being armed to deal with someone with an automatic weapon, simply having a weapon on site may deter some.

There are established methods for recruiting auxilliary police, similar to that used to recruit RCMP officers.

And, is spite of what you say, I believe many people are willing to volunteer their time for nothing to do police work, and are usually more willing to do so, if they are trained and armed in the process. I think having an armed auxilliary police force can greatly reduce the cost of overall policing.

just my opinion

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[RichKlit]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Great post. I guess I have a problem with the guards in schools because if your going to guard one you have to do it all. there are probably and I'm guessing about 260,000 schools in the United States going on some census information that I found.

I have problems with the level of training that's going to be needed, you can't use volunteers unless they're willing to go through not only a gun safety and a marksman course, but you need to put them through psychological testing and some kind of urban combat training course, because to be honest just having a guy with a gun at a school is not going to deter the true death dealing death seeking nut case.

The costs would be enormous for a program like this. The level of competency required is huge, and there's no guarantee that one or more of these guards won't actually be a killer.

You can deny it, but Pedo's get through background checks to coach youth teams, we just recently had a armed professional security guard gun down his work mates and rob a bank and nobody saw that coming, you had a military member kill his own.

Background checks and psych tests don't stop everyone but the obvious and the stupid.

I'm completely convinced that guns on site are not an answer to guns, unless your going to arm these security guards with MP10's or M16's they're going to be outgunned by these killers with what looks like advanced military grade hardware, and pistols are pretty useless in a shootout against a guy with a military grade assault rifle.

I think that the gun problem has to be fought on three fronts, the mindset in the States has to change. There's really no reason for automatic or semi automatic weapons, large capacity magazine fed weapons, hollow point and armor piercing bullets, laser and military grade sights and concealed weapons licenses. There's no reasons for gun shows where you can buy weapons on the side. You have to address this first set by changing the mindset, increasing punitive punishment for gun violence, looking at the testing process and registration process for weapons. The second amendment has to be looked at, the constitution should not be viewed as a suicide pact, or a murder enabling document.

Take a serious look at the mental health situation in the States, that speaks for itself, and when people say that these thrill killers will use other means like knives or explosives your right, but going past the point that someone said that they can make a viable explosive device in 5 hours, I would like to challenge that as I'm curious about the type of design he's talking about and what materials he's using, but that's beyond the point, guns are the greatest and quickest rage weapons ever created, especially semi and fully automatic weapons that carry lots of ammo. It has to be harder to get your hands on guns, and the mental health and background checks have to be more stringent. convicts should never be allowed to buy legal guns, nor should people with prior or current mental health issues. I think the waiting or cool down period has to be expanded to like 6 to 12 months between when you purchase and when you get your gun and the licensing price has to be high.

I also think that American's need to look at the underground gun market and be more stringent on border and harbor patrols to stop the shipments of cheap weapons from China and Asia and South America, and to also maintain a more stringent inventory requirement on domestic gun manufacturers.

Just my two cents.

Still horrified about the thought of a demented Barney Fife with a gun and either a hero complex with poor training, or a hatred of kids.

I agree with everything you have said. Just to clarify i dont necessarily agree with security guards or quazi police force in the schools trained or not, i just dont agree that cost should be the determining factor in dismissing that particular idea.

I think any solution if there truly is a solution(TBH i dont think there is an answer) is going to be incredibly costly. There are no quick fixes and no easy answers because like you said regardless of how we prepare and safeguard our world you can't stop a death seeking death dealing nutcase because they dont have a playbook, everything with them is an audible.

Otherwise like i said I'm in complete agreement with you on just about everything. Until we can prescreen before birth these types of people, no matter what we do some will slip through the cracks, maim and kill.

I think your bang on about changing the mindset and culture of guns in the US and it starts with banning all the weapons you listed, but i will say this its not gonna be like a band-aid you cant just rip it off and see what happens. It's going to be a slow and drawn out process it takes a second to make a mistake a lifetime to atone.

[RichKlit]

I hope hockey comes back soon im way out of my depth with some of these conversations. HAHA

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I just dont know what can be done to stop the random attacks, I think getting rid of fully and semi auto weapons is a start but for those who are dismissing putting armed guards in school due to cost dont kid yourself any measure of gun control is going to cost just as much if not more due to extenuating circumstances such as court case, registries etc. Is it worth it in my opinion yes.

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I agree with everything you have said. Just to clarify i dont necessarily agree with security guards or quazi police force in the schools trained or not, i just dont agree that cost should be the determining factor in dismissing that particular idea.

Cost has to be a determining factor here, though. Because schools can barely afford the teachers they have, the security they have, the supplies they have. Many of these same NRA members who are crowing for armed guards are the same Republicans who are cutting the education budget wherever they can, refusing to pay taxes which would allow schools to provide better education, to provide students with proper counseling, to provide increased security measures.

Unless the NRA wants to fund the weaponry and extensive training, they need to sit down and shut up.

[Flame Of Liberty]

The 2nd amendment needs a small amendment, a clarification, if you will:

You have right to keep and to bear arms*

*these:

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't think I'd want to try to fire the one on the top.

[RichKlit]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Cost has to be a determining factor here, though. Because schools can barely afford the teachers they have, the security they have, the supplies they have. Many of these same NRA members who are crowing for armed guards are the same Republicans who are cutting the education budget wherever they can, refusing to pay taxes which would allow schools to provide better education, to provide students with proper counseling, to provide increased security measures.

Unless the NRA wants to fund the weaponry and extensive training, they need to sit down and shut up.

I think im trying to hard to defend a position i dont truly believe in. I agree cost has to be considered, what im getting at is no stone should be left unturned, if the right answer happens to be the most expensive should we just dismiss it? I think im playing in the land of idealism where those in power in US would find money from the defense budget or wherever to do whats right by there children and really for themselves regardless of cost.

It's very hard to argue with the hard facts of gun control, so i guess i'll stop lol.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I think im trying to hard to defend a position i dont truly believe in. I agree cost has to be considered, what im getting at is no stone should be left unturned, if the right answer happens to be the most expensive should we just dismiss it? I think im playing in the land of idealism where those in power in US would find money from the defense budget or wherever to do whats right by there children and really for themselves regardless of cost.

It's very hard to argue with the hard facts of gun control, so i guess i'll stop lol.

There are a whole lot of things that those in power in the US should do to help children, but when they attempt to help children with access to food, health care, education--well those kids are just moochers and why should they benefit from my hard earned money? Children in this country, unless born into privilege, are all too often given up on. It goes so far beyond protecting them from nutjobs with firearms. If they can't provide all children with a decent education, I doubt they're going to find a way to fix this.

[RichKlit]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

There are a whole lot of things that those in power in the US should do to help children, but when they attempt to help children with access to food, health care, education--well those kids are just moochers and why should they benefit from my hard earned money? Children in this country, unless born into privilege, are all too often given up on. It goes so far beyond protecting them from nutjobs with firearms. If they can't provide all children with a decent education, I doubt they're going to find a way to fix this.

I'm not so sure any country has any of those issues figured out, some are doing better than others but i dont think anyone's found the winning formula yet.

Its funny the only reason i posted was because i got a little riled up about a couple comments about hunters and farmers which i never really addressed haha.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

I think im trying to hard to defend a position i dont truly believe in. I agree cost has to be considered, what im getting at is no stone should be left unturned, if the right answer happens to be the most expensive should we just dismiss it?

For the most good of the nation and it's children, you would be able to put that same money into better education, mental health care, and after school programs to get kids off the streets and almost certainly give a better long term result.

[edslunch]

There won't be any one solution to the problem, it will be a combination of changing attitudes, gun laws, mental health treatment and other prevention measures. Events like this are also part of it:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano..._ref=fb_widget

Getting these weapons out of the public's hands won't make a dent but shows people taking action in the right direction.

[RichKlit]

Originally Posted by Rathji

For the most good of the nation and it's children, you would be able to put that same money into better education, mental health care, and after school programs to get kids off the streets and almost certainly give a better long term result.

Thats exactly what i was saying by no stone unturned regardless of cost.

[Vulcan]

Armed guards in every school, eh. Yeah the solution to too many guns is more guns.When the guards find out their pistols are seriously over matched, they'll need semi-automatics. It's starting to remind me of the arms race during the cold war. What's that saying, "We have found our enemy and it is us".

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Armed guards in every school, eh. Yeah the solution to too many guns is more guns.When the guards find out their pistols are seriously over matched, they'll need semi-automatics. It's starting to remind me of the arms race during the cold war. What's that saying, "We have found our enemy and it is us".

The only way to ensure the safety of the good guys with guns, who keep our children safe from the bad guys with guns, is robots with guns...