2012/2013 English Premier League thread

[d_phaneuf]

You guys are missing where I said it's not clear that Cisse is initiating contact or committing the foul, it's 50/50 in my view, there's no clear angle

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

You guys are missing where I said it's not clear that Cisse is initiating contact or committing the foul, it's 50/50 in my view, there's no clear angle

Irrelevant. He is involved in contact. And again committing a foul or not is unimportant in context. He is active.

The Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson will not face punishment for confronting the referee Mike Dean at Old Trafford on Boxing Day, the Football Association has confirmed.The Scot was furious after Dean overruled his assistant Jake Collin and awarded Newcastle's second goal in United's 4-3 victory.
The FA today confirmed no action would be taken against the manager because Dean made no reference to Ferguson confronting him in his report.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ment-mike-dean

Am told Dean did not send him to stands or report him today because he did not feel there was abusive language or questioning of integrity

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/284276104049602560

There you go. Much ado about nothing. He made no mention of Xmas dinners or specsavers.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Explain to me by the definition of the rule how Cisse tugging at Evans hand/arm whilst in an offside position is not a textbook example by the above definition, interference and therefore offside?

From what I've seen it looks more like Evans was interfering Cisse and, therefore, taking himself out of the 'active' part of the game.

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Even if he's not jostling, just by his mere presence he's 'distracting' the defender. Passive offside means you're not interfering with play and usually quite a few yards away from a defender.

Although this is what I think offside should be, it is no longer part of the definition.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Irrelevant. He is involved in contact. And again committing a foul or not is unimportant in context. He is active.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ment-mike-dean

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/284276104049602560

There you go. Much ado about nothing. He made no mention of Xmas dinners or specsavers.

Wenger throws a water bottle, sent to the stands

Fergie berates every single official on the field over a call they got right, nothing

makes sense...

[Addick]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Wenger throws a water bottle, sent to the stands

Fergie berates every single official on the field over a call they got right, nothing

makes sense...

You are missing the point, Wenger made contact with the bottle...

[Bagor]

Now you're trolling. It's already been demonstrated it was the wrong call. Contact = being active = interference = offside. Just because you say it was right with nothing to back it up does not make it so.

Originally Posted by Addick

You are missing the point, Wenger made contact with the bottle...

Just like Cisse and Evans. It is irrelevant who initiated contact. That there was contact between Wenger and the bottle was deemed equal to interference and was rightly deemed worthy of a temper tamtrum and abuse of equipment.

Correct call.

[d_phaneuf]

raphael honigstein ‏@honigstein
Holtby news: @DerWestenSport says he's unlikely to renew his contract at Schalke, Spurs and Liverpool (and Bayern) interested in him

He was very highly rated but has had some bad performances this year

[d_phaneuf]

latest Walcott rumor is United

coupled with Lewandowski I think they just want to sign ALL THE STRIKERS

[moon]

I may be misreading the rules or not fully aware of the offside ruling but Cisse grabbing Evans like he is should nulify the goal whether offside or not shouldn't it?

Or are you now allowed to grab players and stop them from making plays if you are in an offside position?

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Just like Cisse and Evans. It is irrelevant who initiated contact. That there was contact between Wenger and the bottle was deemed equal to interference and was rightly deemed worthy of a temper tamtrum and abuse of equipment.

Correct call.

Who initiated the contact makes a great difference, if a defender is believed to be engaging in unnecessary jostling then it makes sense for the ref to rule the defender out of the play. The fact of the matter is that Evans needlessly took himself out of the play.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Addick

Who initiated the contact makes a great difference, if a defender is believed to be engaging in unnecessary jostling then it makes sense for the ref to rule the defender out of the play. The fact of the matter is that Evans needlessly took himself out of the play.

How so? By being distracted? See where I'm going here?

If a "defender is believed to be engaging in unnecessary jostling" with a player in an offside position he clearly is being distracted by that player. Otherwise he wouldn't be jostling with him.

I repeat .... for the last time. The moment Cisse makes contact with Evans or Evans makes contact with Cisse, Cisse is by default involved in play from an offside position.

Cisse whilst in an offside position IS NOT allowed to be involved with play. He clearly is regardless of who "started it".

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

How so? By being distracted? See where I'm going here?

If a "defender is believed to be engaging in unnecessary jostling" with a player in an offside position he clearly is being distracted by that player. Otherwise he wouldn't be jostling with him.

I repeat .... for the last time. The moment Cisse makes contact with Evans or Evans makes contact with Cisse, Cisse is by default involved in play from an offside position.

Cisse whilst in an offside position IS NOT allowed to be involved with play. He clearly is regardless of who "started it".

As the defender, Evans has the responsibility to recognize who is or isn't offside and treat them as such. If Evans was switched on, he would have know where he was and that Cisse was offside. With the way offside is being called Cisse is allowed to be where is was and it is up to the defender to mark attackers accordingly, which Evans failed to do.

Cisse should have been left alone and the attention that was paid to him was undue and not considered an intentful distraction; Evans let himself be distracted by a passive offisde player.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Addick

Evans let himself be distracted by a passive offisde player.

Sums up how weak your argument is.

Let himself be distracted? Cisse should have been left alone? Laughable.

Address the facts and explain how a passively offside player can be imvolved in jostling.

You're either passively offside or you're not. There is no in between.

[united]

Good to see neither Ferguson or Pardew will be facing punishment after their actions during the match. Dean was completely incompetent throughout and both sides were well within their right to be furious with him and he deserved everything they threw his way. Missed handballs, Valencia not getting sent off somehow, the Evans OG debacle, and horrible match control otherwise.

I figured the FA would try and make an example of Ferguson, as they usually do, for rightfully telling Dean how to properly do his job. While letting off Pardew for physically grabbing the fourth official, Newcastle's assistant for a cursing tirade post-match at the officials with Evra having to hold him back, Mancini for saying the ref "ate too much for Christmas", and Redknapp for saying the ref "should go to Specsavers". Quite surprised, actually.

It's probably just an anomaly, but I hope the FA has decided that officials should be held accountable for their routine blunders on simple decisions, instead of punishing managers for telling it like it is.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Sums up how weak your argument is.

Let himself be distracted? Cisse should have been left alone? Laughable.

Address the facts and explain how a passively offside player can be imvolved in jostling.

You're either passively offside or you're not. There is no in between.

so if the shot had gone in without Evans touching it does the goal stand?

or was Cisse involved with a defender who could have made a play?

I agree with you in principle, but it's not the way the rule is called

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Sums up how weak your argument is.

Let himself be distracted? Cisse should have been left alone? Laughable.

Address the facts and explain how a passively offside player can be imvolved in jostling.

You're either passively offside or you're not. There is no in between.

Numerous times over the last couple of seasons I've seen attackers be allowed to put defenders in a difficult position due to the recent interpretation of the offside rule. The attacker is allowed to be in an offside position and this is difficult for defenders because, in theory, they are supposed to leave the attacker but, in reality, they still have to keep tabs on him in case he moves into an onside position. Evans should have just kept an eye on Cisse but he decided to keep on arm on him instead.

Consequently, in the eyes of the official, Evans' perception of the situation is what distracted him and made him act when he should not have done anything but keep track of Cisse. It is stupid but that's the way they have been calling it for a couple of seasons and almost everyone has been burned by it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

so if the shot had gone in without Evans touching it does the goal stand?

Probably Yes, as long as there is no play or player interference.

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

or was Cisse involved with a defender who could have made a play?

Cisse was clearly interfering with a defender from an offside position .

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I agree with you in principle, but it's not the way the rule is called

I'm not aware of any precendence. It's the way the rule is clearly described. It's player interference at the highest order (contact whilst in an offside position).

Originally Posted by Addick

Evans should have just kept an eye on Cisse but he decided to keep on arm on him instead.

Consequently, in the eyes of the official, Evans' perception of the situation is what distracted him and made him act when he should not have done anything but keep track of Cisse. It is stupid but that's the way they have been calling it for a couple of seasons and almost everyone has been burned by it.

Show me a similar incident. The incidents you talk of is to watch the player drifting onto an onside position. Cisse did not. And actually, you're way off. The onus here is on Cisse NOT to be involved as opposed to Evans to avoid getting involved. In fact if you think about it the clever thing is to draw contact and invite the interference call.

Again instigation of contact is a moot point. But if Evans did indeed instigate it as you claim (See Cisse's outstretched arm) then that is the correct and clever thing to do so because by drawing contact with Cisse he is inviting a call of player interference.

I repeat the question.

explain how a passively offside player can be involved in jostling.

[Bagor]

Some select quotes from 2012.

"They gave us four minutes [of stoppage time]. That's an insult to the game. It denies you a proper chance to win a football match." - Sir Alex Ferguson after United lost 3-2 at home to Tottenham

"If Ryan Giggs's wife divorced him and took half of everything, how would you feel about her having six more Premier League medals than you?" - Tweet to Steven Gerrard on a Q&A to mark his 600th Liverpool game

"I want to get a box at Man United and a Range Rover Sport, and Catherine wants a new carpet for the upstairs landing." - Gareth Bull, £41m lottery winner

More ... http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...r-8430675.html

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Show me a similar incident. The incidents you talk of is to watch the player drifting onto an onside position. Cisse did not. And actually, you're way off. The onus here is on Cisse NOT to be involved as opposed to Evans to avoid getting involved. In fact if you think about it the clever thing is to draw contact and invite the interference call.

Off the top of my head, in an Arsenal v Tottenham Carling Cup match a couple seasons ago at WHL Arsenal scored a goal after a Spurs defender was caught in two minds. He neither fully committed to the Arsenal player behind him or the approaching attacker in front and the latter played a through ball for a third player who was onside.

The point of the most recent interpretation of the offside rule is most likely to provide the attacker with an advantage. As such, it shifts the responsibility and onus onto the defender.

Originally Posted by Bagor

Again instigation of contact is a moot point. But if Evans did indeed instigate it as you claim (See Cisse's outstretched arm) then that is the correct and clever thing to do so because by drawing contact with Cisse he is inviting a call of player interference.

Except if the officials catch this and continue to provide the attacker with an advantage, which is essentially what happened in this case.

Originally Posted by Bagor

I repeat the question.

It can happen when the officials refuse to categorize the player as active due to unprovoked actions by the defender. I say unprovoked because the rule allows the attacker to be offside and inactive even though his mere presence makes him active in reality.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Some select quotes from 2012.


More ... http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...r-8430675.html

the gerrard/giggs one is so good

the nsfw JT one about who his mom was dating is great as well