AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: At le pub...
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Originally Posted by DuffMan
wrong, not only is it complete baloney, it is fearmongering lunacy,
Ha, that was actually my favourite quote as well. I think you will see this essay popping up a lot. Insane viewpoint.
It's worth a read because it's not complete baloney - as in, despite its many, many flawed arguments, at least it somewhat makes sense (as opposed to most views from the NRA's boosters). Anyway, this is the best I've seen from the pro-gun nutjobs in the states, and even this isn't very good.
The flawed arguments make it complete baloney to me, his idea of arming teachers or giving them that opportunity is ludicrous. This guy is basically a gun safety instructor, and he teaches people to hit targets. That's great and all but that crap flies out the window when it comes to a chaotic situation. Maybe all teachers should be forced to go through a military combat school during the summer of their last year of college.
He skirts around the biggest area of mental illness, and then skips right to the points that we need more rounds in a magazine because we might miss, again those bullets don't just stop if they miss they tear through walls and bodies and windows.
And the whole crap about the shooter will commit suicide when confronted. That's absolute BS, those killers will probably chose to go out in a blaze of glory when confronted especially when they're facing a teacher. The reason why those killers usually off themselves is that they hit the mission accomplished mindset.
Going back to arming teachers, what are we going to arm them with? usi's shotguns bigger guns then the potential killer. This killer was armed with multiple weapons including a AR-15 which is a very accurate fast shooting rifle with a large magazine and a very high quality highly accurate military grad non scope gun sight. Basically he can hit a target from a distance labeled in up to the length of half a foot ball field, a pistols accuracy can be measure in yards, pistols are not super accurate and in a shaky hand completely inaccurate.
This writer has a romanticized image of what he believes he knows about guns and about these shootings. Maybe we should drop him into a chaotic situation where he could possibly die at the hands of a crazed gun man with an assault rifle and give him a pistol. Likely his cavalier attitude would change.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Location: Oklahoma - Where they call a puck a ball...
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I am just curious as to what kind of gun control CP recommends to stem this type of stuff?
I am from the Southern US and guns have been present in my family ever since I can remember. I own a few myself and keep them locked away away from my home. ( My wife is Canadian and wouldnt allow them in the home anyway). Obviously the Bill of Rights gives every American the right to bear arms and that's an argument many Americans will look to to justify their owning of weapons.
All that being said , I do think the violence needs to me stemmed but why should my personal rights be taken from me if I have acted responsibly and haven't done anything wrong?
P.S. Why is everyone mentioning automatic weapons/assault rifles? The Connecticut shooter only used handguns in his rampage. He has an assault rifle in the trunk but it wasnt used.
I am just curious as to what kind of gun control CP recommends to stem this type of stuff?
I am from the Southern US and guns have been present in my family ever since I can remember. I own a few myself and keep them locked away away from my home. ( My wife is Canadian and wouldnt allow them in the home anyway). Obviously the Bill of Rights gives every American the right to bear arms and that's an argument many Americans will look to to justify their owning of weapons.
All that being said , I do think the violence needs to me stemmed but why should my personal rights be taken from me if I have acted responsibly and haven't done anything wrong?
P.S. Why is everyone mentioning automatic weapons/assault rifles? The Connecticut shooter only used handguns in his rampage. He has an assault rifle in the trunk but it wasnt used.
Why would you need an automatic weapon/assault rifle?
How could he kill 30 people and shoot a hundred rounds with only handguns?
I'm not sure what you're getting at with the "typical canadians" comment.
Are you saying that they should be allowed to carry guns and it's typical of canadians to disagree with that, or that canadians are saying tht teachers should be able to carry guns and that's typical of us?
Either way, it makes no sense. What are you trying to insinuate?
This is what troubles me about this discussion and I'm going to go back on some of my experience so bear with me.
The whole ban automatic weapons call and we need our large capacity magazine argument is stupid.
first and foremost in my experience a weapon like a AR-15 civillian or a AK-47 civilian is an ideal killing weapon. semi automatic weapons combined with a large round clip and a pseudo military sight is the best weapon if I want to kill enmasse.
Fully automatic weapons are terror weapons, after the first few rounds leave the barrel the recoil takes the aim up and to the right. Go and find an automatic weapon and try it. If you don't have arms like a great ape its an incredibly inaccurate weapon designed to force your enemy down and pin them. Hollywood movies that show people spraying crowds accurate thats the exception.
Ask most soldiers, when they had the automatic option on their rifles they didn't use it because its only good for punching holes in the sky after the first few shots. Plus it beats the sh$t out of your shoulder..
A semi automatic rifle with a large clip is a great killing weapon. basically the springs eat the recoil and settle the weapon back down after you shoot it. On top of that I can fire more bullets accurately and faster with a semi auto.
I was never a great sharp shooter in the military, but with the FN-C1-A1 I was tremendously accurate because I could control my aim and my breathing and put bullets on target with greater accuracy then I ever could with a SAW or a SMG.
A semi auto based assault rifle with a large mag is probably the best weapon that you could have for a killing spree if your the least bit disciplined with it and know how to breath.
A pistol is an idea weapon in an enclosed space, especially a semi auto pistol with a magazine fed system. In a terrifying environment its very easy to corner people in a room and shoot for the center of the crowd. Pistols suck over distance but in close they're highly effective for killing.
There's no reason whatsoever for the above weapons to be in the hands of civilians. They're not hunting weapons, they're not even needed for home defense.
the weapons that I would leave alone. Revolvers, breech feeding rifles, hunting rifles with 5 or less round magazines, hunting class shotguns with a 2 round capacity (no more assault or mag fed shotguns.
I would also ban hollow point bullets, and mandate that civilian bullets had to be coated in Teflon
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Location: Oklahoma - Where they call a puck a ball...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan
Why would you need an automatic weapon/assault rifle?
I have used an Ar-15 ( which I believe was just a .223 calibre). It was fun and that's about it. However that wasn't my question. Those guns are under fire and they weren't even used in this incident.
I am simply asking what kind of gun control(s) do you suggest that would help problems like these?
I have used an Ar-15 ( which I believe was just a .223 calibre). It was fun and that's about it. However that wasn't my question. Those guns are under fire and they weren't even used in this incident.
I am simply asking what kind of gun control(s) do you suggest that would help problems like these?
That's great and everything but those type of rifles have been used in other mass shootings, so whether they were used in this case is entirely irrelevant.
This shooting has opened up the discussions because kids were killed.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I have used an Ar-15 ( which I believe was just a .223 calibre). It was fun and that's about it. However that wasn't my question. Those guns are under fire and they weren't even used in this incident.
I am simply asking what kind of gun control(s) do you suggest that would help problems like these?
Something, anything. The US just has to start doing something.
I am just curious as to what kind of gun control CP recommends to stem this type of stuff?
I am from the Southern US and guns have been present in my family ever since I can remember. I own a few myself and keep them locked away away from my home. ( My wife is Canadian and wouldnt allow them in the home anyway). Obviously the Bill of Rights gives every American the right to bear arms and that's an argument many Americans will look to to justify their owning of weapons.
All that being said , I do think the violence needs to me stemmed but why should my personal rights be taken from me if I have acted responsibly and haven't done anything wrong?
P.S. Why is everyone mentioning automatic weapons/assault rifles? The Connecticut shooter only used handguns in his rampage. He has an assault rifle in the trunk but it wasnt used.
If I was to start to try and fix the 15,000 deaths a year the US has I would limit allowable guns to bolt or lever action rifles and shotguns, preferably double barrel, not that the US will do this mind you, but if they did it would all but solve their problems while still allowing the fullfillment of 2nd amendment rights and allowing foir all the roles a gun is good for.
Location: Oklahoma - Where they call a puck a ball...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
That's great and everything but those type of rifles have been used in other mass shootings, so whether they were used in this case is entirely irrelevant.
This shooting has opened up the discussions because kids were killed.
For the record I agree no one needs fully automatic weapons. I have shot a few in my life and they are pointless in the hands of civilians. I have a .223 rifle ( as the .223 Remington is one of the most popular gun cartridges. The only difference between the .223 rifle and the Ar-15's I have shot is the body of the gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameswin
Something, anything. The US just has to start doing something.
Well its obviously a fine line to walk. I ( along with a ton of Americans) dont think we shouldnt be able to own our own firearms. It's definitely going to take some creative thinking to come close to appeasing both sides.
Well its obviously a fine line to walk. I ( along with a ton of Americans) dont think we shouldnt be able to own our own firearms. It's definitely going to take some creative thinking to come close to appeasing both sides.
Yeah but if the governenment severly limits the types of guns you guys can own, but still allows you to keep a small number of acceptable models, wouldn't they still be honoring the constitution by allowing citizens to bear arms?
I have used an Ar-15 ( which I believe was just a .223 calibre). It was fun and that's about it. However that wasn't my question. Those guns are under fire and they weren't even used in this incident.
I am simply asking what kind of gun control(s) do you suggest that would help problems like these?
The AR-15 was the primary weapon in the attack, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
Location: Oklahoma - Where they call a puck a ball...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameswin
Yeah but if the governenment severly limits the types of guns you guys can own, but still allows you to keep a small number of acceptable models, wouldn't they still be honoring the constitution by allowing citizens to bear arms?
Because that where I would start, personally.
Severely limiting anything that Americans have had easy access to in the past isn't going to go over well at all.
Just like it's so hard to have rational pro gun talks with Canadians because they have demonized most guns for so long its hard to have rational talks about the cons of owning guns to Americans who own them.
I like to think I am a pretty intelligent and rational guy. I just don't see how outlawing most guns is going to solve or severely decrease this type of activity.
Sure they should ban fully automatic weapons , some military assault rifles, and all extended magazine hand guns. However people that want to kill people will find another way to kill people.
Severely limiting anything that Americans have had easy access to in the past isn't going to go over well at all.
Just like it's so hard to have rational pro gun talks with Canadians because they have demonized most guns for so long its hard to have rational talks about the cons of owning guns to Americans who own them.
I like to think I am a pretty intelligent and rational guy. I just don't see how outlawing most guns is going to solve or severely decrease this type of activity.
Sure they should ban fully automatic weapons , some military assault rifles, and all extended magazine hand guns. However people that want to kill people will find another way to kill people.
I love that we are irrational when you are argueing in favour of a status quo that kills 10, to 15,000 americans a year for no appreciable purpose what so ever other than a bit of deer meat.
In 9/11 3000 people died and you guys invaded 2 countries spent close to 3 trillion dollars and completely ignored even the most basic of human rights up to and including the US goverment killing US citizans without trial or due process. 100,000 americans over the last decade die due to non existant gun control and you all throw your hands up and claim there is nothing that can be done!
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 12-22-2012 at 04:02 PM.
