NRA calls for armed police officers in all U.S. schools

[DuffMan]

NRA Blames Everything Except Guns: Outdated Video Games, Hurricanes, And Corporate Media Led To Newtown

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Rerun

That doesn't work either. Bad guys will always be able to get their hands on guns.

No to pile on you, but then what is the answer? Clearly the current approach in the US is not working.

I think the definition of crazy is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

What the US currently does is not working.

Hey here is a crazy thought, let's try something different. See if it works, what is the most that can happen, less gun voilence...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do you really believe this?

A 20-year-old-kid with very limited resources is going to have a hell of a time finding an assault weapon when gun ownership and access is limited.

Not if you have a huge crime/drug problem.

In Canada, absolutely I agree. But in the US, with a $100 billion dollar drug trade, how hard can it be to get a couple weapons?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Rerun

How many policemen would be required to sufficiently guard a single school of say 1000 students with perhaps 10 exits?

I don't know, but would one be enough to dissuade idiots from trying? I can only say that the answer is more than zero which is where we are today.

Add to that the fact that having a police office in the school would foster better relationships between the police and students, probably cut down on crime in general and its probably worth the expense though.

[Montana Moe]

It would have taken Adam Lanza one more squeeze of the trigger to eliminate an armed guard at the school that morning. He could have been concealed 50 yards away, the guard would have never known what hit him, and wouldn't have had a chance to draw his weapon.

The attack would have been delayed by maybe 15-30 seconds.

[darockwilder]

I would be curious to know what tests one would need to pass in order to be classified as one of these 'good guys'. You've got a valid drivers license and are not currently in jail? Congratulations, you are now a bonafide 'good guy'. Here's your gun, now go defend a school.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not if you have a huge crime/drug problem.

In Canada, absolutely I agree. But in the US, with a $100 billion dollar drug trade, how hard can it be to get a couple weapons?

I imagine it's still going to be more trouble than it is now (especially when it comes to weapons with high rates of fire), and it sure as hell couldn't hurt.

Believing that limiting gun access is pointless because if someone wants a gun, they'll get a gun, is as silly as believing an armed security guard in each school is going to stop someone from gaining access to the school and shooting people even if they really want to.

Ryan J. Reilly
‏@ryanjreilly
The NRA, which couldn't keep the most famous protester in America out of its event, calls for more security at schools.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

It's not, only multiplied by 98,816.

I don't think it's outrageous to have an armed police officer at every school in that case. It is stupid, though, to believe that a high school cop can effectively stop an attack similar to the one that happened in Newtown.

[WilderPegasus]

This might be the most frightening thread I've ever read.

The logic behind having armed guards in schools will also then follow that same logic when a guard goes nuts and starts shooting people to then arm the teachers. When a teacher goes nuts and starts shooting people then they'll arm the students. Then everyone will have guns and everyone can stop the bad guys.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Now I'm a gun owner myself but I'm not quite sure what to think about this.

In some ways I think... the NRA... a far right gun ownership group and just one more of their crazy ideas.

But then again, its true... if there was an armed security guard at Sandy Hook Elementary, would this tragedy have happened?

Yes with a slight difference, the security guard would have been the first one shot, assuming he was at the front door. The shooter was wearing Kevlar body armour and using a semi auto rifle, he was, from a strictly tactical point of veiw, virtually impervious to some old geezer with a 9mm pistol that doesn't know he's coming.

Even assuming you assigned 2 or 3 guards and made them wander the schools in full body armour themselves toting a .50 caliber rifle with kevlar (and class room wall) penetrating bullets they are still at a distinct disadvantage to a prepared shooter with the ability to ambush them unawares.

Failing this the shooter will just shoot the kids in the playground on recess from across the road or alternatively approach the school from a back entrance and use the 2 or 3 minutes it would take for the guards to respond to kill 20 or 30 kids, not to mention the chaos of 100 or 200 kids running up a hallway with security guards and shooter engaing in a shoot out through the crowd.

Failing that a deranged wack job that wishes to scrimp on bullet proof vests will just target a little league game or a ballet school or the like.

Then there is the possibility that one of your guards themselves goes off the deep end and decides to off the little #######s that have been teasing him about his weight issues for a few years just before he got laid off.

It takes about 5 seconds of thought to realise that the idea is idiotic and NRA stands for Not Rationally Aware these days.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do you really believe this?

A 20-year-old-kid with very limited resources is going to have a hell of a time finding an assault weapon when gun ownership and access is limited.

With bad guys (criminals) yes. In this case the kid wasn't a bad guy. Yes, he did a bad thing, but he wasn't a bad guy. He was just a kid who was very mentally disturbed.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Rerun

That doesn't work either. Bad guys will always be able to get their hands on guns.

Hey, I'm just pointing out that an airtight logical argument can be made for *any* solution to the issue. What if we only made guns that shot flowers at people? What if we armored all our children in 3" steel plating? What if we all lived in large boxes that made it impossible to lift our arms high enough to aim?

Oh, wait, those are unrealistic. Hundreds of thousands of armed guards, that's the way to go - and it'll cut unemployment!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I don't think it's outrageous to have an armed police officer at every school in that case. It is stupid, though, to believe that a high school cop or minimum wage rent-a-cop can effectively stop an attack similar to the one that happened in Newtown.

FYP, BTW, I agree with you.

People this a security guard is the answer. Do they really think he/she will have sufficent training to do anything other than poop their pants in the time of stress?

[polak]

I agree with the general sentiment in this thread. One-on-One, the attacker will win 99% of the time as he has the advantage of suprise. You could put a decorated marine at every school and it wouldn't matter. He'd just be the first one to get killed.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No to pile on you, but then what is the answer? Clearly the current approach in the US is not working.

I think the definition of crazy is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.

What the US currently does is not working.

Hey here is a crazy thought, let's try something different. See if it works, what is the most that can happen, less gun voilence...

I agree with your assessment of the gun problem in the USA. Much stricter controls are necessary with regards to hand guns and assault weapons.
Now, I own multiple hunting rifles. I don't own a hand gun, nor do I own an assault rifle. There really isn't any need for those weapons. The hunting rifles I use for hunting.

[InSutterWeTrust]

Didn't the shooter have an assault rifle? If they had a guard in place, I doubt he is carrying around an assault rifle, probably a pistol, we would probably just have one extra body count from this scenario, the guard. Really this guy went in with a mission, had body armour and guns. If there was a guard, it would have probably just changed the tactic that the shooter would have used.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by polak

I agree with the general sentiment in this thread. One-on-One, the attacker will win 99% of the time as he has the advantage of suprise. You could put a marine at every school and it wouldn't matter. He'd just be the first one to get killed.

So, let's check with the ol' check-list:

- We can't do gun control because if a bad guy really wants a gun, he'll get a gun anyway.

- We can't do armed guards at schools, because if a bad guy really wants to shoot up a school, he'll shoot up a school regardless.

What's next on the agenda? Helicopter gunships could work.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

FYP, BTW, I agree with you.

People this a security guard is the answer. Do they really think he/she will have sufficent training to do anything other than poop their pants in the time of stress?

Even if you put a properly trained, armed police officer at every school which I'm not opposed to. Maybe he can stop a knife attack. But as others have stated. It just takes a bit more planning on the part of the shooter and the officer is the first one dead.

Also, maybe you make schools safer, but what about malls, theatres, hockey rinks, outdoor basketball courts, soccer fields, etc? This will just cause the lunatics to find an easier target.

[polak]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So, let's check with the ol' check-list:

- We can't do gun control because if a bad guy really wants a gun, he'll get a gun anyway.

- We can't do armed guards at schools, because if a bad guy really wants to shoot up a school, he'll shoot up a school regardless.

What's next on the agenda? Helicopter gunships could work.

Get rid of the gun culture?

[DuffMan]

They could train all of the lazy food stamp people to be armed school guards.