Alberta budget news

[RubberDuck]

"The day begins with news the promise of the Redford Tories to even just balance the books on the provincial government’s day-to-day spending for the upcoming year is now but a hope.
There isn’t enough cash coming in from the patch. Fantasy mathematics does not come through.
“It’s going to be tight,” confesses the premier"

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/12/19...ow-going-ahead

"Alberta’s own perfect storm of market conditions means even a $3 billion deficit is no longer the worst case scenario.
Forget Premier Alison Redford’s campaign promise of a balanced budget. Even the revised promise of a balanced operating budget’s a crap shoot. Last year’s wildly optimistic three-year business plan is out the window, said Finance Minister Doug Horner."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/12/19...minister-warns

[crazy_eoj]

Hooray! Debt for all of us this Christmas! Happy days!

[Ducay]

Damn the crooked PC's for lowering oil and gas prices. Redford must go!

[Resolute 14]

Most people saw through Redford's lies even as she made them. This is hardly a revelation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Damn the crooked PC's for lowering oil and gas prices. Redford must go!

How about damn the PC's for creating a budget based of fairy tale numbers that they pulled out of their a$$es to make themselves more sellable.

How come Saskatchewan who had access to the same type of budgets actually managed to create a reality based budget and generate a surplus?

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

How about damn the PC's for creating a budget based of fairy tale numbers that they pulled out of their a$$es to make themselves more sellable.

How come Saskatchewan who had access to the same type of budgets actually managed to create a reality based budget and generate a surplus?

Yeah! How come 2 different provinces can't be identical.

We should slash the budget so we can restart a bunch of projects 3 years down the road when they will cost 3 times as much! That'll show em.

if we take on a small amount of debt, that's when the communist Keynesians win.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by NuclearPizzaMan

Yeah! How come 2 different provinces can't be identical.

We should slash the budget so we can restart a bunch of projects 3 years down the road when they will cost 3 times as much! That'll show em.

if we take on a small amount of debt, that's when the communist Keynesians win.

How about just living within our means by spending less? In the real world, which the Liberal-PC's don't seem to have a clue about, if you don't have the money for large projects, you don't spend it.

Its a tragedy that with the enormous wealth that Alberta has, we still can't seem to grasp the concept of not spending more than our revenues. We are definitely heading back to the massive debt of the pre-Kline days with Redford and the rest of her Liberal cronies at the tiller.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Rerun

How about just living within our means by spending less? In the real world, which the Liberal-PC's don't seem to have a clue about, if you don't have the money for large projects, you don't spend it.

Its a tragedy that with the enormous wealth that Alberta has, we still can't seem to grasp the concept of not spending more than our revenues. We are definitely heading back to the massive debt of the pre-Kline days with Redford and the rest of her Liberal cronies at the tiller.

Is it because debt isn't the worst thing in the world? I know that you are going to have an aneurysm reading that but I would rather borrow money now for a project and pay interest on it, rather than waiting for however long it takes for the price of natural gas to rebound (and that is the main issue here) and paying twice or thrice the construction costs.

I agree that the government needs to get some of the spending under control - however the fact is that while Alberta is in a boom it needs to be spending more on labour costs in particular due to the elevated cost of living in a province that is in a boom.

But I am sure you know exactly where the money can be saved, right?

[Tinordi]

Depending on fossil fuel royalties for general revenue in order to keep taxes artificially low for the dullard horde. This is the consequence.

This is less the government's fault and more that of the electors, ie. You.

[_Q_]

I guess everyone complaining about going into huge amounts of debt don't have a mortgage. Weird that most of you can save up half a million dollars to buy a house.

[Jacks]

Deficit may go as high as 6 billion now.

Watch for some PST trial balloons to be floated soon.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Deficit may go as high as 6 billion now.

Watch for some PST trial balloons to be floated soon.

As they should. Albertans are demanding more services than they're currently paying for.

[CaptainCrunch]

Except most of the large projects are future financed debts and not immediate services debt.

so not only is our government going into out of control debt now, but they're also going to add on long term debt to finance these projects.

So the mortgage comparison is right and wrong.

Basically our government who's house was paid off is getting a second mortgage to cover renovations.

But they're also at the point where they're immediately spending more money then their bringing in to cover more immediate needs.

So we're getting the worst of both worlds. They're going to gut us now and cripple us later.

They're spending like drunken sailers now and running credit cards and instamoney loans for later.

Debt can be a good thing when its needed, and if its not something that's chronic. This government is going to create a chronic debt issue.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Except most of the large projects are future financed debts and not immediate services debt.

so not only is our government going into out of control debt now, but they're also going to add on long term debt to finance these projects.

So the mortgage comparison is right and wrong.

Basically our government who's house was paid off is getting a second mortgage to cover renovations.

But they're also at the point where they're immediately spending more money then their bringing in to cover more immediate needs.

So we're getting the worst of both worlds. They're going to gut us now and cripple us later.

They're spending like drunken sailers now and running credit cards and instamoney loans for later.

Debt can be a good thing when its needed, and if its not something that's chronic. This government is going to create a chronic debt issue.

What do you mean by large projects? Infrastructure spending? That's marginal for the provincial budget. If anything financing large projects with debt is what you should be doing. No no, this is an issue with government services and the lack of revenue to pay for them.

Considering that most Albertans are wroth to actually reduce the services they enjoy it's time to start paying like any other advanced democracy, with taxes.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I guess everyone complaining about going into huge amounts of debt don't have a mortgage. Weird that most of you can save up half a million dollars to buy a house.

Except a mortgage on a house is money owed on an asset that, in most cases, will increase in value over time.
The Redford government is like the guy who goes out and finances a Porsche when he really only needs a Chevy to meet his needs and his income.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Except a mortgage on a house is money owed on an asset that will increase in value over time.
The Redford government is like the guy who goes out and finances a Porsche when he really only needs a Chevy to meet his needs and his income.

????

Home values do decrease, you do understand that right? Buying a house now does not ensure it will be worth more in the future. Just cause it happened to you does not make it the truth for everyone.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

????

Home values do decrease, you do understand that right? Buying a house now does not ensure it will be worth more in the future. Just cause it happened to you does not make it the truth for everyone.

Over the length of a std 20 year mortgage a house will definitely increase in value.... actually its mostly the land that increases in value but thats beside the point.

Sure in the short term, a house may decrease in value.... but in the long term... yes it will unless there are extraordinary circumstances.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by NuclearPizzaMan

Yeah! How come 2 different provinces can't be identical.

The better question is how can two different provinces be so different on their prediction of the price of oil. Alberta based their budget on a much higher price for royalties and when it didn't materialize they ended up with a deficit.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Over the length of a std 20 year mortgage a house will definitely increase in value.... actually its mostly the land that increases in value but thats beside the point.

Sure in the short term, a house may decrease in value.... but in the long term... yes it will unless there are extraordinary circumstances.

Laugh. Pretty much solidifies my feeling that you barely grasp the concepts that you rail on about.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by fotze

I initially thought "fata you Tinordi, just cut the fat", so I checked into it.

I copied the 2012 Budget into a spreadsheet and tried to cut from the various departments up to 20% in some areas while cutting only 5% in health and education. Like hack and slash, klein style and could only get it down by $2.9B.

Its really hard to just cut spending. Especially when health is 44% of the budget.

Pretty suprised to see seniors as the 5th largest budget item at nearly 7% ($2.5 Billion) didn't think they were that expensive. Gotta get out and vote.

Might be a revenue problem too.

Actually its pretty interesting, every Albertan should play around with it. Anyone want the SS emailed, PM me.

Is there detailed line items or just lump sum amounts by category (e.g. Health 10billion, Education 3billion)?