Connecticut School Shooting

[_Q_]

I think at the end of the day, both mental health and gun control need to be looked at. Take away the guns from the lunatic and you worst case have him going on a rampage with a knife or a baseball bat. Take away the lunatic from the guns and you have guns sitting there being un-used.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by vektor

disagree, romeo and juliet is not max payne 3. My 12 year old cousin was playing GTA 4 when it came out, that's not ok. You don't take your kids to rated R movies when they are 12, I hate how kids are allowed to play games that on the box say they shouldn't be. It desensitizes the entire culture to violence.

The heck were your aunt/uncle doing? (joking btw)

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp

GTA 4 - rated M for Mature. Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up. May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

They even put out a special new release for it at the time:

http://www.esrb.org/about/news/downl...IV_4.25.08.pdf


Now if you are saying how it seems more acceptable for kids to play such games versus watching movies rated in a similar way, then I get what you are saying.

[Azure]

He's not a lunatic until he does something heinous.

Either way he deserves to get help.

And for the record, I agree with you.

[Azure]

nm. wrong post

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

I appreciate your post, you've addressed many of the arguments very succinctly. The only issue I would take is with the above quoted paragraph. The National Guard takes their orders from the Feds these days, so they would likely be on the side of the "tyrannical government" in that scenario.

Unless there was a coup, of course.

Aren't the National Guards under the control of the Governor of the State?

If the Federal government became "tyrannical" there could potentially be 50 small armies in opposition.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think the violent movies and video games argument is a load of horse crap. The rest of the world plays these games and watches these movies. Why is it that Americans only can't distinguish between reality and virtual reality? The issue is and has always been the ease of access to guns. Eliminate that and you eliminate gun crimes.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Azure

I never said they were equal comparisons. I said blaming one or the other and ignoring the actual mental health problem is the problem.

Cool, don't disagree. But isn't it more an issue about the physical "tool" being so readily and easily available?

Mental health problems regardless of the source can't do as much damage if such a death dealing tool is within such easy reach. It's like installing a "death ray" button in everybody's car that can instantly kill anybody in another car. Hell, it'll even work if a kid wants to press it. Can you imagine the death rate given the ease of such a tool and the usual amount of road rage?

Looking to solve the road rage is nice and all, but taking away that button seems like a much better idea while you go work on patching some signals/signposts that started the road rage in the first place.

[transplant99]

games are not to "blame"...solely. but again are just part of a very complicated issue. Just like its not "just" guns....or "just" mental health issues....or a bunch of other things....but when all put together, its a disaster.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by transplant99

games are not to "blame"...solely. but again are just part of a very complicated issue. Just like its not "just" guns....or "just" mental health issues....or a bunch of other things....but when all put together, its a disaster.

That's all true but video games probably have as much to do with it as what he had for breakfast that morning.

[jhunt223]

Jesus. The arguments put forward by the pro gun side are always so stupid they hurt to read. This must be what it was like to be someone who realized slavery was wrong and needed to be abolished while it was still quite common.

[_Q_]

I think taking away violent video games is more of a punishment to the responsible and sane people out there than taking away responsible people's guns. I love playing violent video games and really enjoy action movies. I will watch those movies or play those games with my 12 and 17 year old nephews without thinking twice. I and my nephews alike all know it's for entertainment and we understand that reality is completely different than what we see on TV. I don't think it desensitizes me. I was fooled into watching a guy commit suicide on youtube a few years back and couldn't sleep for 2 weeks because it was so horrific. People need to understand the difference between entertainment and real life.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

That's all true but video games probably have as much to do with it as what he had for breakfast that morning.

Not according to quite a few different professionals...obviously no one can pinpoint exactly how much effect on any single person, but many agree that the desensitizing is definately an issue for some.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by jhunt223

Jesus. The arguments put forward by the pro gun side are always so stupid they hurt to read. This must be what it was like to be someone who realized slavery was wrong and needed to be abolished while it was still quite common.

Funny you should mention that. That was 1791. If you took a time machine and brought people back from that era the first thing out of their mouth would be "WHO THE HELL LET ALL THESE SLAVES OUT?!?!" - not "oh hey, do we have a well armed milita?"

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not according to quite a few different professionals..

Okay, which ones?

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not according to quite a few different professionals...

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Okay, which ones?

I can list a few (sarcasm btw, check the links)

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/0...effect-attack/

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/17/ma...st-apologizes/

And of course - this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Okay, which ones?

Like i said earlier i heard the one guy yesterday in an interview...he was the head of some psych dept at a major school (Stanford maybe?) i dont remember exactly.


I read a study a while back as well that showed how the brain reacts when young folks are playing violent games vs playing something non violent, and it was marked difference.

Again though, this is likely just about as much about the individual and their specific reactions as anything that can be apllied across the board...but all the same it remains a piece of the puzzle.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Like i said earlier i heard the one guy yesterday in an interview...he was the head of some psych dept at a major school (Stanford maybe?) i dont remember exactly. .

Well, let me know if you find that one name. I'm interested in quiet a few as well.

I read a study a while back as well that showed how the brain reacts when young folks are playing violent games vs playing something non violent, and it was marked difference.

Without knowing what study you've read here it's no surprise the brain reacts when you're doing something you enjoy or doing something in general. Still wouldn't mean it has anything to do with turning kids into killing machines.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Well, let me know if you find that one name. I'm interested in quiet a few as well.

i dont think i will bother, quietly or not.

Without knowing what study you've read here it's no surprise the brain reacts when you're doing something you enjoy or doing something in general. Still wouldn't mean it has anything to do with turning kids into killing machines.

It wasnt something you enjoy vs something in general...it was violent video games vs non violent video games.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by transplant99

i dont think i will bother, quietly or not.

Dammit, got me on a spelling error. I think spelling trumps your lack of capital letters and punctuation though. You win this round.

[transplant99]

Looking for that report i read...i did find this

New research has found exposure to violent video games can desensitize individuals to real-life violence. According to the investigators, this is first documented finding that video-games can alter physiological responses typically aroused by real violence.

They authored a paper titled “The Effects of Video Game Violence on Physiological Desensitization to Real-Life Violence,” which was published in the current issue of the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology. In this paper, the authors define desensitization to violence as “a reduction in emotion-related physiological reactivity to real violence.”
Their paper reports that past research — including their own studies — documents that exposure to violent video games increases aggressive thoughts, angry feelings, physiological arousal and aggressive behaviors, and decreases helpful behaviors.

Previous studies also found that more than 85 percent of video games contain some violence, and approximately half of video games include serious violent actions.

“In short, the modern entertainment media landscape could accurately be described as an effective systematic violence desensitization tool,” he said. “Whether modern societies want this to continue is largely a public policy question, not an exclusively scientific one.”

“Several features of violent video games suggest that they may have even more pronounced effects on users than violent TV programs and films,” said Carnagey.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/07...lence/137.html

And this one...

From the results, Dr. Montag has concluded that emotional desensitization does not only occur while playing computer games. "We were ultimately able to find the decreased control of emotions in first-person shooters for the real images, too," he said. That is why he thinks these responses are not just limited to these virtual worlds. While there are many studies on video games and aggressive behavior, surprisingly few exist that look at their effect on the brain. "Our results provide indications that the extensive use of first-person shooters is not without its problems," said Dr. Montag. "But we will need additional studies to shed some more light on the connections between violent games, brain activity, and actual behavior."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1012124019.htm