Connecticut School Shooting

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

The best counter to this myth is in New York where cops shot 8 (#?) innocent bystanders trying to take down a crazed gunman at the Empire State building. This isn't call of duty; in real life people are running around in a panic and collateral damage is very real and happens.

True.

But I can counter your attempt at calling it a myth by providing examples of people with proper training taking down a gunman before he was able to injure/kill a bunch of people.

Including one incident that happened yesterday.

But I won't, because I think it is ridiculous to expect citizens to walk around with a gun. I do however think having armed cops at schools is a good idea.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Azure

Do they? I heard about that earlier as well.

I also agree that it is a much better idea.

Cop, bulletproof glass at the entrance, and heavy duty doors on each classroom that can withstand at least some form of an attack, and you've got a good start in terms of better protection.

Of course, we're just talking about 'help' when the problem has already occurred. A much more important conversation is how to prevent the problem to get to the point where the guy is taking the guns and heading for the school.

What if adding that cop meant one less teacher at that school. County budgets are pretty tight around here these days, and they are responsible for both police and schools. These are still incredibly isolated events, and paying some cop to sit around at our elementary school seems like a pretty bug waste of money and society would probably be better served by spending the money on education.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Azure

If a teacher happens to be ex-military or something, its not so crazy to think that they could stop a shooter.

I don't agree with arming teachers, but I won't deny that someone with proper training couldn't stop something like this before it gets worse.

I have heard it takes about 275 hrs of training to teach RCMP officers to properly use their weapons, and then there is continued practice to maintain their skills. Can you honestly see training teachers to do the same thing?

[vektor]

I like the idea of having a single police officer at a school, except don't give him a gun. Give him a high precision taser gun that can fire multiple rounds, having a gun around children all the time just seems unsettling to me.

[Brannigans Law]

Originally Posted by Azure

True.

But I can counter your attempt at calling it a myth by providing examples of people with proper training taking down a gunman before he was able to injure/kill a bunch of people.

Including one incident that happened yesterday.

But I won't, because I think it is ridiculous to expect citizens to walk around with a gun. I do however think having armed cops at schools is a good idea.

The reason I have a tough time with that idea is if you have a cop stationed at a school for security, he simply becomes the 1st casualty in a shooting. The gunman likely knows about the cop and even if he doesn't once he's on site and see's the cop he just pulls out his gun and executes him 1st. Police are trained but not mind readers. Someone whos willing to die to shoot up a school won't be stopped by a cop on site, you just add another victim.

There's too many guns in America. Too many stigmas attached to mental health. Too much of a gap between upper and lower class. These are the issues to start dealing with, not turning schools into prisons.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'd like to say I'm surprised but nah.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...174415554.html

Paul Decker, the owner of Hunters' Heaven in Hayes, Va., said he saw a big spike in sales over the weekend, with many customers buying the AR type of rifle allegedly used in the Newtown shooting.

Wow.. it's like a body count of twenty 6 and 7 year olds is positive advertising and product placement for the gun industry.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I have heard it takes about 275 hrs of training to teach RCMP officers to properly use their weapons, and then there is continued training to maintain their skills. Can you honestly see training teachers to do the same thing?

Even if they had the best training in the world, it would still be a crappy idea. While it may come in handy if something like this happens again, more guns in schools would almost certainly result in more gun deaths at schools.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Azure

The reason I'm bringing this up is because I know someone who owns a .22 Ruger with a 30 round clip that has the collapsible stock, sights, etc, etc....similar to what the AR-15 often has. Is it an assault rifle?

I'm not even sure if it is legal, but I have used it before to shoot gophers.

An assualt rifle, yes, a piss poor one, but yes still one.

[Minnie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s

[Minnie]

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg

[ah123]

I was wondering when we would see something like this...

Earlier in the day, authorities in Kearns, Utah, spoke about the case of a local sixth-grader caught with a gun at school.
He told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to the mass shooting last week in Connecticut.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle6513958/

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg

Thanks for those videos. Goes to show that most gun owners are totaly out to lunch as to how well they could even protect themselves let alone others with their gun.

[Ozy_Flame]

I am of the opinion that other people packing and drawing guns would create even more chaos and possibly more deaths. That is assuming you can draw your gun and get a clean shot without panicking. Most people who advocate packing guns in public would likely have no idea how to handle the situation in the heat of the moment. 99.9% of people wouldn't know.

The only shortcoming was that there is usually someone who hears the chaos in another room, and does have time to withdraw a weapon. However, in the heat of the moment, I suspect the person would be far too panicked and full of adrenaline to accurately neutralize the attacker.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I am of the opinion that other people packing and drawing guns would create even more chaos and possibly more deaths. That is assuming you can draw your gun and get a clean shot without panicking. Most people who advocate packing guns in public would likely have no idea how to handle the situation in the heat of the moment. 99.9% of people wouldn't know.

The only shortcoming was that there is usually someone who hears the chaos in another room, and does have time to withdraw a weapon. However, in the heat of the moment, I suspect the person would be far too panicked and full of adrenaline to accurately neutralize the attacker.

Yeah we have a guy at work that contends if he was in the school with his concealed weapon the guy never would have got past the front door. I told him that first of all he'd likely be crapping his pants with an assualt rifle pointed at him and forget he had a gun. Or as soon as he tried to draw the guy who already had his rifle drawn and ready to shoot would shoot him. Or he would stick his head out in the hallway but look the wrong way and get tagged by the shooter. Or because he doesn't religiously practice shooting he'd miss the shooter anyways in such a situation.

He stuck to his argument until he was blue in the face. At lunch we made a deal that I would try to "shoot" him the rest of the day and see if even knowing I was in the area "shooting" if he could do anything. He's died many times without saving anyone so far. He's not changing his mind but I've already heard from others that they are changing their minds.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by ernie

Yeah we have a guy at work that contends if he was in the school with his concealed weapon the guy never would have got past the front door. I told him that first of all he'd likely be crapping his pants with an assualt rifle pointed at him and forget he had a gun. Or as soon as he tried to draw the guy who already had his rifle drawn and ready to shoot would shoot him. Or he would stick his head out in the hallway but look the wrong way and get tagged by the shooter. Or because he doesn't religiously practice shooting he'd miss the shooter anyways in such a situation.

He stuck to his argument until he was blue in the face. At lunch we made a deal that I would try to "shoot" him the rest of the day and see if even knowing I was in the area "shooting" if he could do anything. He's died many times without saving anyone so far. He's not changing his mind but I've already heard from others that they are changing their minds.

Have him watch the video Minnie posted above.

The problem is guns are like driving, everyone thinks they are better than everyone else at it.

[Senator Clay Davis]

America is the greatest. The proof? Gun sales after 20 children slaughtered? Through the roof...A Ke$ha song that's titled "Die Young"?. Plummetting on the charts and being pulled from radio stations. God Bless America, they recognize the real issues...Ke$ha!

After the massacre in Newtown, Conn., last Friday, some radio stations across the country have pulled Ke$ha’s“Die Young” single from rotation, TMZ reports.

The Warrior song was the No. 3 single on the Billboard Hot 100 at the time of the tragic shooting, but it looks like the track is now plummeting from the charts. On Saturday, TMZ reports, airplay had dropped by 3 million listeners, and by Monday, that figure had fallen even further to about 148 million listeners — a 19 million drop from before the tragedy.

The last time a song or artist dropped this steeply? When the Dixie Chicks got themselves banned from country radio for dissing President Bush.

http://music-mix.ew.com/2012/12/18/k...young-newtown/

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ernie

Yeah we have a guy at work that contends if he was in the school with his concealed weapon the guy never would have got past the front door. I told him that first of all he'd likely be crapping his pants with an assualt rifle pointed at him and forget he had a gun. Or as soon as he tried to draw the guy who already had his rifle drawn and ready to shoot would shoot him. Or he would stick his head out in the hallway but look the wrong way and get tagged by the shooter. Or because he doesn't religiously practice shooting he'd miss the shooter anyways in such a situation.

He stuck to his argument until he was blue in the face. At lunch we made a deal that I would try to "shoot" him the rest of the day and see if even knowing I was in the area "shooting" if he could do anything. He's died many times without saving anyone so far. He's not changing his mind but I've already heard from others that they are changing their minds.

And this is the problem with gun control. It is a Belief that people have. It is ingrained in the person.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

America is the greatest. The proof? Gun sales after 20 children slaughtered? Through the roof...A Ke$ha song that's titled "Die Young"?. Plummetting on the charts and being pulled from radio stations. God Bless America, they recognize the real issues...Ke$ha!

Well the reasons for this happening are tragic. Less Ke$ha however is a ble$sing.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because of the 30 round clip, yes I would.

As for hunting purposes, it is extremely effective if you're shooting gophers, prairie dogs, coyotes and such.

Like I said it uses the .223 round, which is often not eve used for shooting bigger game.

Most of the hunters I know use something a lot bigger. .30-30, 7mm, etc, etc.

So because of the size of the ammunition it likely is designed for small game, and probably human conflict?

Seems like a logical choice for a civilian ban....

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Have him watch the video Minnie posted above.

The problem is guns are like driving, everyone thinks they are better than everyone else at it.

While that video is interesting, it totally ignores the fact that a properly trained person with a gun is really the only way to stop these events once they are happening.

Having a policeman or fully trained and armed person on staff to respond to these events seems to make sense...?

Or take it another way, if the shooter had instead walked into a texas NRA meeting, do you think he would have done more or less damage? These psychopaths unfortunately aren't dumb... they all seem to intentionally target gun free zones to maximize their ability to cause harm.