I think CC has the motive correct. Some sort of sick entitlement by this lunatic to protect the children from the up-coming apocalypse is my guess as to why this happened.
Yeah I'm about fed up with the Christ in school stuff. How about first we deal with how the people intent on doing this sort of damage to families and communities have such easy access to the tools of the destruction. Let's also deal with why someone slips through the cracks and does this from a mental health perspective (I assure you it has nothing to do with Christ being in the school or not).
When all that is done we can talk about whether Christ should be in the schools. Though, IMO I want nothing to do with this Christ that allowed 26 innocent and precious lives to be slaughtered in order to make his case for needing more of him in school. Perhaps a simplistic viewpoint on my part but then again it is far less simplistic than saying "it's god's will" just so you can move on without actually having to think about something.
I think CC has the motive correct. Some sort of sick entitlement by this lunatic to protect the children from the up-coming apocalypse is my guess as to why this happened.
I don't know. The sick and sadistic overkill (kids shot 3-11 times with hollow points) doesn't seem to imply any type of compassion, no matter how irrational or misguided.
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Yeah I'm about fed up with the Christ in school stuff. How about first we deal with how the people intent on doing this sort of damage to families and communities have such easy access to the tools of the destruction. Let's also deal with why someone slips through the cracks and does this from a mental health perspective (I assure you it has nothing to do with Christ being in the school or not).
When all that is done we can talk about whether Christ should be in the schools. Though, IMO I want nothing to do with this Christ that allowed 26 innocent and precious lives to be slaughtered in order to make his case for needing more of him in school. Perhaps a simplistic viewpoint on my part but then again it is far less simplistic than saying "it's god's will" just so you can move on without actually having to think about something.
I agree what is there to think about? Don't add extra stuff into it. Humans having been doing weird crap always and will continue to do so. People are like beyond evil. Only thing that has to be thought about is how to protect the innocent. Would gun laws actually do anything? In a country like the States where there are so many illegal weapons does making it more difficult to have a legal one accomplish anything.
Kinda sucks but I'm thinking that a big shift towards more of a police state wouldn't be that bad a thing. Guards at schools, malls etc. Criminals in neighborhoods clearly identified and sanctions on what they can and cannot do. Police patrolling the internet and identifying weirdos. These people shouldn't have the ability to be anonymous and "normal" citizens should be able to have a safe environment for themselves and their children.
Brilliant logic by Huckabee... I guess the dozens and dozens of other nations that kicked god out of school, or never had him in there to begin with, were somehow spared god's judgement.
I agree what is there to think about? Don't add extra stuff into it. Humans having been doing weird crap always and will continue to do so. People are like beyond evil. Only thing that has to be thought about is how to protect the innocent. Would gun laws actually do anything? In a country like the States where there are so many illegal weapons does making it more difficult to have a legal one accomplish anything.
There are enough stats and studies from tighter guns control states and countries that say yes they do accomplish something. And they can accomplish a lot. Just because the problem is big doesn't mean you throw your hands up and ignore it. You start tackling it now and perhaps 30 years from now when those kids that survived have kids going to grade 1 you have changed things. It won't and can't be magically 100% changed overnight, but you need to start going down the road changing it a percent at a time.
Pretty simple IMO, you ban these types of weapons and have a buy back program. You do that and I think you see that 30% of households with a gun drop significantly AND you make an impact on the type of weapons that are remaining. From anything I've read we aren't talking about illegal guns. illegal guns get used in the "everyday" criminal world (robberies, gang violence etc) and not in these types of crimes. That illegal gun trade will still exist but if you make it so this type of individual has to go that route to find the weapon you are putting a large obstacle in their way. And if you give law enforcement more money and tools to fight the illegal gun trade then even better.
But really the first thing that needs to be done is that americans need to realize that a document written a few hundred years ago can't possibly still be "current". They need to realize that while there are absolutes in the constitution not everything can be viewed as an absolute independent of the reasons they were included.
Well as far as I'm concerned, it is pretty sad that the overall debate seems to be more about gun control, and less about the fact that 20% or so people in the US have mental health problems of some kind, and apparently there is no effective treatment or help for them.
A few days ago before the shooting, the shooter was someone who needed help. Now people are ignoring that because of what he did. Sure his mom was screwed up beyond belief from what we've read, but maybe that is because we choose to ignore people who have mental health issues. Perhaps we don't understand the issues enough.
Gun control is a topic worth discussing, but there won't be an outright ban. The bill that will be proposed in January will apparently still allow Americans to own over 900 different kinds of guns.
Limiting magazine sizes, types of ammo, how easy it is to buy a gun, increasing waiting periods, mandatory license renewals, background checks, and mandatory safety courses are all valid points.
I've always been for more mandatory education for gun ownership. I think instructors should be able to access someone applying for a permit, and deny it if they see potential problems.
Of course there will still be illegal firearms, and perhaps easy way to obtain them, but I think that goes towards the issue with the war on drugs, and how it is affecting the US.
I've thought about what can be done to fix this mass shooting problem in the US and I've come to the conclusion that America is too messed up to be able to fix it. I'm very anti-gun, but I also understand that there are millions of illegal guns out there and a "prohibition" on guns if you may will likely not make much of a difference. So at the end, I'm very very grateful that I live in a sane society like Canada. USA is royally effed.
Brilliant logic by Huckabee... I guess the dozens and dozens of other nations that kicked god out of school, or never had him in there to begin with, were somehow spared god's judgement.
Mike huckabee is the worst kind of charlatan. Co-opting tragedy for financial manipulation and gain.
This guy was runner up to John McCain 4 years ago.
Disgusting individual.
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Well as far as I'm concerned, it is pretty sad that the overall debate seems to be more about gun control, and less about the fact that 20% or so people in the US have mental health problems of some kind, and apparently there is no effective treatment or help for them.
A few days ago before the shooting, the shooter was someone who needed help. Now people are ignoring that because of what he did. Sure his mom was screwed up beyond belief from what we've read, but maybe that is because we choose to ignore people who have mental health issues. Perhaps we don't understand the issues enough.
Gun control is a topic worth discussing, but there won't be an outright ban. The bill that will be proposed in January will apparently still allow Americans to own over 900 different kinds of guns.
.
I'm getting kind of sick of the "It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue" argument. It's become a copout.
How do you propose to fix the people with mental issues can get guns very easily dilemma? Maybe go back to the good old days where babies were eliminated when the showed signs of being defective?
I agree what is there to think about? Don't add extra stuff into it. Humans having been doing weird crap always and will continue to do so. People are like beyond evil. Only thing that has to be thought about is how to protect the innocent. Would gun laws actually do anything? In a country like the States where there are so many illegal weapons does making it more difficult to have a legal one accomplish anything.
Kinda sucks but I'm thinking that a big shift towards more of a police state wouldn't be that bad a thing. Guards at schools, malls etc. Criminals in neighborhoods clearly identified and sanctions on what they can and cannot do. Police patrolling the internet and identifying weirdos. These people shouldn't have the ability to be anonymous and "normal" citizens should be able to have a safe environment for themselves and their children.
I don't think this is a time to make any rash or sudden moves to try and instantly solve the problem. As has been stated, it's a very complex problem and requires a lot of careful input from many experts in various disciplines to come up with a long range plan to turn things around.
I think the US has finally reached a tipping point and hopefully things will improve from here.
The problem wth the mental health issue and it is relevant and mental health issues are not always apparent, sociopaths and worse can probably get through any tests that would be issued to get a gun unless we're talking actual sessions in front of a mental health official.
What about the mentally healthy people that buy a gun and then suffer an incident of become mentally ill later, theres not a renewal process for that.
I agree that the net does have to be tightened to catch the obvious sick people from buying a gun.
But I do agree with the Senator or congresswoman on the news today, there's no need for box magazines or people to own assault class rifles at all. There also has to be better enforcement in terms of gun storage in the home.
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I don't think this is a time to make any rash or sudden moves to try and instantly solve the problem. As has been stated, it's a very complex problem and requires a lot of careful input from many experts in various disciplines to come up with a long range plan to turn things around.
I think the US has finally reached a tipping point and hopefully things will improve from here.
If Obama can use force of will to make the changes that need to be made, or at least get the road for changes defined I will respect him a lot more then I do right now. That's not a shot at the guy, but its going to take major leadership, and a take no prisoners I don't care about lobby groups attitude for things to change for the better.
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I'm getting kind of sick of the "It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue" argument. It's become a copout.
How do you propose to fix the people with mental issues can get guns very easily dilemma? Maybe go back to the good old days where babies were eliminated when the showed signs of being defective?
How is it a copout? As it has been pointed out in this thread, 20% of people in the US have mental health problems. Given the healthcare situation down there, its not that crazy to assume that many of them don't receive proper care. Like I said, before the shooting, the shooter was just someone who really needed help. Now people are ignoring that because of what he did. And yet the fact still is that he was obviously really disturbed. And there were signs of it too.
Obviously people with mental health issues shouldn't own guns or have access to them of any kind. But you can't restrict that access if you don't offer mental healthcare, and educational resources of any kind.
I'm for better gun control if it makes sense. Sadly, my guess is most people want outright bans, and that will never work.
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The problem wth the mental health issue and it is relevant and mental health issues are not always apparent, sociopaths and worse can probably get through any tests that would be issued to get a gun unless we're talking actual sessions in front of a mental health official.
What about the mentally healthy people that buy a gun and then suffer an incident of become mentally ill later, theres not a renewal process for that.
I agree that the net does have to be tightened to catch the obvious sick people from buying a gun.
But I do agree with the Senator or congresswoman on the news today, there's no need for box magazines or people to own assault class rifles at all. There also has to be better enforcement in terms of gun storage in the home.
Well obviously you can't control everything. Bad things will still happen regardless of what we do. But the RCMP have said that they prefer the 5 year renewal on the PAL license versus the 10 year because it helps weed out potential problems. I would imagine they have something to back that up.
As for other solutions, as one of my American friends said to me today.
"Perhaps we should spend less time killing children in Pakistan, and more time taking care of our own."
I don't see how screening mentally ill people will stop this type of violence. If anything, it will cause more individuals to hide their problems since it means they'll have their 2nd amendment right taken away from them if they come out of the closet so to speak. Also, Adam Lanza would have still had access to his mom's guns whether or not he was allowed to purchase them himself or not.
I don't see how screening mentally ill people will stop this type of violence. If anything, it will cause more individuals to hide their problems since it means they'll have their 2nd amendment right taken away from them if they come out of the closet so to speak. Also, Adam Lanza would have still had access to his mom's guns whether or not he was allowed to purchase them himself or not.
Probably true.
I was speaking more of helping the mentally ill people so that we maybe we can stop from committing atrocities like this.
Mental health problems probably fly over most of our heads, but I do know that the guy who beheaded a fellow human being has received mental health care, and is apparently doing much better. So obviously there IS help out there.
People hated it that he got access to some sort of freedom, which just goes to show that most of us don't really understand the issues at hand.
I was speaking more of helping the mentally ill people so that we maybe we can stop from committing atrocities like this.
Mental health problems probably fly over most of our heads, but I do know that the guy who beheaded a fellow human being has received mental health care, and is apparently doing much better. So obviously there IS help out there.
People hated it that he got access to some sort of freedom, which just goes to show that most of us don't really understand the issues at hand.
Agreed.
Maybe having an all out ban on assault rifles is a start and then making it so inconvenient to own a hand gun that it's damn near impossible. Maybe something like a two tier system where you get a hunting gun licence first. After you have proven for 5 years that you or anyone else has never harmed anyone with your weapon be able to go through a 2 year long screening and training program to own a hand gun. Make it so every 2 years or so you have to renew your licence where you have to take a test and allow someone into your home to see if the proper safety measures are being taken to renew your licence. That doesn't take care of the illegal weapons issue, but it's a start I guess.
