2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

What they need to do is parlay the Miami trade into several solid years where at any time they are within striking distance.

I agree, and what you're saying is the same thing Ant has been asserting - but there appear to be redundancies in CF and C.
In one or two years, Rasmus and JP will be in their prime yet still need to make room for (maybe) superior players in TdA and Gose.

Optimal asset management says move one of the two before they limit each other's value. If the deal otherwise makes sense, of course.

And adding veteran starting pitching seems SO attractive right now. The high-ceiling prospects are still years away (and I don't want to move a guy like Syndergaard) and the injury-replacements look ugly.

Bumping Happ to a Villenouva role would make me feel a lot better raising expectations for the season. Last year the Jays were over ten deep into their starting rotation - who would we project to be 6/7/8/9/10 this year?
McGowan, Cecil, Jenkins...?

[whosurnabby]

I want to believe this is just hearsay, but it keeps getting reported on multiple platforms. It would make zero sense to me

The more reason to NOT BELIEVE THE RUMORS. I'd rather have AA bust his ass and make a deal for pitching dept rather than R.A Dickey. We've got to show that we can compete (ie make the playoffs) in the tough, TOUGH, AL East first before we go ALL IN. It's all about building a dynasty. Let's strengthen the core and keep on adding depth...once 2014-2015 hits, with the plethora of young arms we have, we'll be the Nationals of the American League.

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by Gozer

You're looking at a guy like Verlander to be 5-7 WAR better than Happ.

Dickey averaged 4 WAR over the last three seasons, and it's not unreasonable to expect him to maintain that for the next three. That's an excellent addition to a team that is pushing to go deep in the playoffs. A stat-based-projection would support having him start the first playoff game for the Jays - Dickey isn't a fluke and his would-be contributions shouldn't be scoffed at.

Gose is probably worth more than Dickey in a vacuum, but we're not talking about adding Gose in his prime to Joey Bats and in his - Gose would be part of a different team by the time he's as good as we hope he could be.

I'd make this deal:
JP + Gose + any prospect who's name I don't know for Dickey with an extension for 2-3 years around $10-14M.

Is Dickey really a sure thing? He has put together 3 strong seasons in a row but he he is not a classic knuckle ball thrower, as mentioned above he does also rely on his 80/mph fastball. His K rate also took such an insane jump last season, there's no way to know if he could keep that going, especially having to adjust to the AL East. I don't think Dickey is a sure thing and he's such an anomaly, that it's tough to predict what next season will hold, let alone the next 3.

I think Gose is a 2WAR player at least right now. Just due to his speed, defense and arm. Rasmus 2nd half was so incredibly bad, it leaves me with little or no confidence in him going into next season. 2 years down the road the Jays are then left with a massive hole in one of the most important positions on the diamond.
In my mind, if you're willing to spend 14-15 million per season, if you're willing to give up Anthony Gose, there is better ways to spend your money.


I don't think all of AA's moves come out of left field, a lot of them we've heard prior that the Jays may have interest in that player. Even in Florida, it was pretty well documented the Jays were after Josh Johnson and AA inquired about him and it turned into something much bigger.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Is Dickey really a sure thing? He has put together 3 strong seasons in a row but he he is not a classic knuckle ball thrower, as mentioned above he does also rely on his 80/mph fastball. His K rate also took such an insane jump last season, there's no way to know if he could keep that going, especially having to adjust to the AL East. I don't think Dickey is a sure thing and he's such an anomaly, that it's tough to predict what next season will hold, let alone the next 3.

I think Gose is a 2WAR player at least right now. Just due to his speed, defense and arm. Rasmus 2nd half was so incredibly bad, it leaves me with little or no confidence in him going into next season. 2 years down the road the Jays are then left with a massive hole in one of the most important positions on the diamond.
In my mind, if you're willing to spend 14-15 million per season, if you're willing to give up Anthony Gose, there is better ways to spend your money.


I don't think all of AA's moves come out of left field, a lot of them we've heard prior that the Jays may have interest in that player. Even in Florida, it was pretty well documented the Jays were after Josh Johnson and AA inquired about him and it turned into something much bigger.

Rasmus in the 2nd half was not indicative of the player he is. Fatigue and a Jays lineup that was decimated by injuries took away any protection he had. The Jays trotted him out there everyday to his detriment, because essentially they had a AAA roster besides him and EE for big portions of the 2nd half.

Sliding him down to 6/7 in the batting order next year will do wonders for his game. I'll be the first to say he's very mentally fragile, so taking away pressure and allowing him to just play is a recipe for success. Beyond Rasmus and Gose, DJ Davis and Anthony Alford (permitting behaviour) are intriguing prospects with big potential, so the hole in CF would not be as big as you suggest should Gose be moved.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN

Mets view most likely Dickey trade suitors as TOR, KC, TEX. But after the prices paid out lately,his contract ask must seem more reasonable.

[Sylvanfan]

Jays will add Carlos Delgado to their ring of excellence. Like any hitter from his era, there will always be speculation of PED use. But from 98 to 2004 he crushed the holy he'll out of the baseball. The guys who beat him out for MVP like Rodriguez, and Giambi have admitted to steroid use those years. So if he was relatively clean those years, he will have a shot at the hall of fame. IIRC his name wasn't in the Mitchel report.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Jays will add Carlos Delgado to their ring of excellence. Like any hitter from his era, there will always be speculation of PED use. But from 98 to 2004 he crushed the holy he'll out of the baseball. The guys who beat him out for MVP like Rodriguez, and Giambi have admitted to steroid use those years. So if he was relatively clean those years, he will have a shot at the hall of fame. IIRC his name wasn't in the Mitchel report.

No his name was not in the Mitchell report, nor was it ever linked to steroids I believe. A great hitter, one of the best clean (if he was indeed clean) power hitters of the HR era, glad to see he will be recognized.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

Is Dickey really a sure thing? He has put together 3 strong seasons in a row but he he is not a classic knuckle ball thrower, as mentioned above he does also rely on his 80/mph fastball. .

There's risk to consider, the biggest being that he is 38. I like that he is a knuckler and that will "bother" a lot of opposing line ups. When you make a trade like we made with Miami, it's worth going for it - all in.

I'm not convinced Gose will ever be able to hit MLB pitching where as I think if Rasmus ever gets comfortable at the plate, for an extended period of time, he could be a .240 35 Homer guy, he could also be a guy who mentally runs himself right out of this game in 2 years time.

[HitterD]

Jays name Hentgen bullpen coach.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...-bullpen-coach

Not surprising, but should hopefully be a good move.

Can anyone who follows a little more closely comment on how he was in his first stint as bullpen coach?

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by HitterD

Jays name Hentgen bullpen coach.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseba...-bullpen-coach

Not surprising, but should hopefully be a good move.

Can anyone who follows a little more closely comment on how he was in his first stint as bullpen coach?

He's really well liked, there weren't any problems. So tough to measure his skill as a coach because most of the stuff we can't measure or see. Seems like a good hire though.

[TitovFTW]

Whiteside got claimed by the Texas Rangers today. He's doing a North American tour of baseball teams, his 4th this summer. It does open up a spot for the Jays on the 40 man roster. Nobody has any idea why and something tells me it's just nothing but there's a little speculation as to why he'd be put on waivers. The Dodgers also freed up a few spots on their 40 man today, so the baseball fan with to much time on his hands in me, thinks maybe there's a move coming there. The Dodgers do have a lot of depth at the SP position right now. The best news would be the Jays are set to announce Charlie V has re-signed as the 6th man in the rotation/ long relief. We shall see

[jschick88]

If the price to land Dickey is D'arnaud and Gose no thanks. Not worth giving up 2 top prospects for a 38 year old.

@Joelsherman1
Talked to at least half-dozen execs today, all think #Mets will trade Dickey. All cautioned no inside info, but many said watch #Bluejays

@JonHeymanCBS
#bluejays #angels, 2 biggest under-the-radar clubs in mlb, are among teams thought interested in dickey. Trade buzz up.
#bluejays are in mix for dickey. They have young OFs and catchers
Signs point to #bluejays leading in dickey chase. Have the prospects to get it done.
Orioles and rangers don't seem in middle of dickey talks at moment. As said, blue jays are frontrunners

@MartinoNYDN
Sources: Intense trade talks yesterday regarding Dickey, with Texas, Toronto and, hey now, Baltimore being serious players.

@MartinoNYDN
Some people I talk to are indicating Toronto more likely than Texas or Baltimore for Dickey. I do not think any deal is done.

@DKnobler
Hearing Mets very active talking about Dickey trade today. We know Blufe Jays interested. Other teams, too

@Buster_ESPN
The Mets are making progress toward a trade of Cy Young winner R.A. Dickey. TOR has been seen as a strong possible fit all along.

[Jiggy_12]

Lots of Dickey buzz at the moment. Mlbtr saying Jays are right in the mix, as well as the Rangers and Orioles. Sounds like trade talks are intensifying

[jschick88]

@Joelsherman1
Heard Dickey will not do extension with #bluejays which could be what is slowing talks with Tor #Mets

#orioles didn't seem in on Dickey talks this morn and #Rangers seemed lagging. #bluejays appear destination if contract hurdle solved #Mets


@JonHeymanCBS
#mets believed to have trade they like for dickey. @Joelsherman1 speculates may be waiting on RA extension talk w/other team

[Flickered Flame]

My guys in Oakland believe Dickey will be a Jay, whether that gets finalized or not is another story.

[The Big Chill]

As long as we don't give up TDA, Gose, Sanchez or Syndergard then I will be very happy.

[howard_the_duck]

Very nervous about this. Do not want to give up the package I think will be required to get Dickey.

[jschick88]

Arencibia and gose were mentioned in dickey trade talk. Would be realistic package if that's it

https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS

[jschick88]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Very nervous about this. Do not want to give up the package I think will be required to get Dickey.

Agree. Doesn't sound like he is willing to sign an extension either. So landing Dickey would be just for one year for at the cost of Gose and ??. I wouldn't do it.

[howard_the_duck]

J.P I am absolutely fine with being part of this package. J.P + Gose is another story.

I would be much more inclined to look at Edwin Jackson for 3-4 years and retain these assets than part with them for Dickey.