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Old 12-05-2012, 05:40 PM   #101
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There are plenty of biased articles against Israel. If you look at how Israel treats its own citizens, including the Arab Isralis it ranks very high. If you want to include how Israel treats the other side in an armed conflict, and objectively look at the facts, you'll also find it ranks very high.
I don't think it matters what you say, Q is not going to change his perverted sense of reality. He has claimed Israel is not much of a democracy, is one of the worst at human rights, Hamas is a democracy, Palestinians recognize Israel, and finally that the bulk of Palestinians that left Israel were actually forced out by Jews, etc. You are basically debating with a revisionist who has allowed someone else to teach them a bizarre history of a region.

Q, if I am wrong about what I wrote, please explain.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:47 PM   #102
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You forgot that Israel attacked the Arab's in 1967 when they were innocent of anything and unprepared for war.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:47 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Nage Waza View Post
I don't think it matters what you say, Q is not going to change his perverted sense of reality. He has claimed Israel is not much of a democracy, is one of the worst at human rights, Hamas is a democracy, Palestinians recognize Israel, and finally that the bulk of Palestinians that left Israel were actually forced out by Jews, etc. You are basically debating with a revisionist who has allowed someone else to teach them a bizarre history of a region.

Q, if I am wrong about what I wrote, please explain.
Dude, it took you 2 days to think of this?

Nice drive by buddy. I'm not going to argue with you. I never said any of those things. Go back and read my posts if you want my reasoning.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:58 PM   #104
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Nage Waza out of all people accusing someone of a perverted sense of reality.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:01 PM   #105
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So we can all agree that: this discussion has not been fruitful, and a random hockey board was unable to find a lasting solution to the middle east conflict?
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #106
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So we can all agree that: this discussion has not been fruitful, and a random hockey board was unable to find a lasting solution to the middle east conflict?
Although you and CaptainCrunch have differing opinions than me, I really do enjoy arguing with you guys, since you two seem to be fairly level headed.

Nage Waza on the other hand...
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:32 PM   #107
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Let's lighten things up in here:

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Old 12-05-2012, 07:07 PM   #108
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I never really bothered to look into the 1967 war in detail, but after reading through this thread I went and read everything I could find about it. Pretty interesting stuff.

I've always been pretty pro-Israel, but I do enjoy reading a good discussion, and this has been one.

And as much as people love saying Nage is extremely pro-Israel, puckluck has always come across as being extremely anti-Israel. So people in glass houses....
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:39 PM   #109
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That's because I am extremely anti-Israel.

Also extremely anti-Hamas, Anti-Hezbullah, anti-Iran, anti-Syria. The list goes on.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:01 PM   #110
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Nage Waza out of all people accusing someone of a perverted sense of reality.
I would love a quote that would support your statement. You and your alter egos appear as someone suffering from some type of breakdown. You contradict yourself over and over.

Please support your statement.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:47 PM   #111
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Nm not worth it.

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Old 08-11-2013, 06:01 PM   #112
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Does anyone actually believe Israel when it says that it wants peace?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...ttlements.html

Israel's housing minister on Sunday gave final approval for building nearly 1,200 new settlement apartments on lands the Palestinians want for their state, three days before U.S.-sponsored talks on the borders of such a state were to begin in Jerusalem.

The Palestinians said they would complain to the U.S. and Europe. Negotiator Mohammed Shtayyeh said Israel's latest announcement on promoting settlement plans, the third over the course of a week, "is clear proof that the Israeli government is not serious about the talks."

The announcement by Israeli Housing Minister Uri Ariel came just hours before Israel was to announce the names of 26 veteran Palestinian prisoners to be freed later this week. In all, Israel has promised to free 104 such prisoners in four stages over the course of nine months of negotiations.


The release of the prisoners is part of a U.S.-brokered deal that brought the two sides back to the table after a five-year freeze. Sunday's new settlement announcement and the expected decision on choosing the prisoners slated for release highlighted the apparent tradeoff: Israel releases some prisoners, but gets to keep building in settlements during the negotiations.

The Palestinians want to establish a state in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, captured by Israel in 1967. Since the 1967 war, Israel has built dozens of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem that are now home to some 560,000 Israelis.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas had long insisted he would not resume negotiations without a building settlement freeze, arguing that their expansion pre-empts the outcome of such talks. Most of the international community, including the UN Security Council and the World Court, have deemed the settlements illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Abbas dropped his demand for the building freeze after U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry won Israel's agreement to release inmates serving long sentences, including those involved in the killing of Israelis who otherwise would likely have spent the rest of their days in prison.

Palestinian officials said Kerry also assured them that the U.S. views Israel's pre-1967 lines as a starting point for border talks, even though Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has refused to endorse the idea.

Any prisoner release is highly controversial in Israel, particularly of Palestinians involved in killing Israelis. Abie Moses, whose pregnant wife and son were killed in a Palestinian firebomb attack in 1987, sharply criticized the government's choices.

For the government, "it's easiest to free those murderers," Moses told Israel TV's Channel 10. "We don't have the energy to scream like the [political] right who [protest] freezing settlements or talking about the 1967 borders."

Netanyahu presides over a coalition government with vocal advocates for continued settlement building, including in his own Likud Party.

In Sunday's settlement announcement, the housing ministry said 1,187 apartments had been given final approval, the last stage before issuing tenders to contractors. Of those, 793 will be built in neighbourhoods for Jews in East Jerusalem, annexed by Israel shortly after the 1967 Mideast war. Most of the international community does not recognize the annexation.

In addition, 394 apartments are to be built in several large West Bank settlements, including Maaleh Adumim, Efrat and Ariel. The latter sits in the heart of the West Bank, and its expansion could be particularly problematic for negotiators trying to carve out a viable Palestinian state.

The housing minister, a leading member of the pro-settler party Jewish Home, said construction would continue.

"No country in the world takes orders from other countries where it can build and where it can't," Ariel said in his statement. "We will continue to market housing and build in the entire country ... This is the right thing at the present time, for Zionism and for the economy."

Sunday's announcement is the third by Israel in a week that pushes forward settlement plans. A week ago, Israel expanded its list of settlements eligible for special government subsidies. Several days later, the government promoted building plans for more than 1,000 settlement homes.

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Old 08-11-2013, 06:22 PM   #113
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oh oh

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Old 08-11-2013, 07:11 PM   #114
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I don't understand this conflict as well as some of you but I'm curious of one thing. Why is it Israel's responsibility to give up land for the Palestinians? Why not Syria, Jordan or Egypt?
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:12 PM   #115
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I don't understand this conflict as well as some of you but I'm curious of one thing. Why is it Israel's responsibility to give up land for the Palestinians? Why not Syria, Jordan or Egypt?
Israel was made from Palestine.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:35 PM   #116
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Israel was made from Palestine.
But so is Jordan right?
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:54 PM   #117
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But so is Jordan right?
Not anymore. Israel still occupies the Palestinian land that it took from Jordan in 1967. Jordan is more than happy for that to no longer be their problem and does not want the land back.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:57 PM   #118
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For those looking for a brush up, a good, concise summary of the core issues and where the parties stand.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:38 AM   #119
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Not anymore. Israel still occupies the Palestinian land that it took from Jordan in 1967. Jordan is more than happy for that to no longer be their problem and does not want the land back.
"Palestine" was the name that Britain gave to a territory it received after the break-up of the Ottoman empire. Palestine became modern Israel, the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Jordan.

Jordan was created to appease the Hashemites after they lost to the Saudis. Both the Hashemites and Saudis were struggling for control of the Arabian Peninsula, when the Hashemites lost, the British, in order to avoid a massive war between Arab tribes, gave the Hashemites Jordan, and they moved there.

Edit: Also, before the Ottoman Empire was torn apart, there were no borders or individual countries. People could move freely between areas. So the line between being Palestinian and Egyptian or Jodanian is pretty artificial to begin with.

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Old 08-12-2013, 12:01 PM   #120
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Plus Jordan fought a pretty big civil war against the PLO (Yasser Arafat) and Palestinians back in the 70s (?)...
Probably not too much love lost between the two.
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