2012/2013 English Premier League thread

[d_phaneuf]

Toure/Barry/Milner/Ramires/Sandro/Dembele/Parker/Arteta/Wilshere/Lucas/Allen/Tiote/Cabaye

all walk in to this Man United team ahead of their CMs

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Toure/Barry/Milner/Ramires/Sandro/Dembele/Parker/Arteta/Wilshere/Lucas/Allen/Tiote/Cabaye

all walk in to this Man United team ahead of their CMs

Ya know, a few pages back I thought I had read the furthest reaches of your delusion.

Guess not.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Ya know, a few pages back I thought I had read the furthest reaches of your delusion.

Guess not.

You don't agree with that? Which player of those wouldn't make the starting 11?

[devo22]

I do agree with most on that list, but there are some among them who I wouldn't even touch with a ten-foot pole. They just should have tried to get Dembele in the summer, he would have been the perfect addition. The names they should be looking at now are Strootman, Witsel, Wanyama, Fellaini, Gündogan, Moutinho, Tiote and Cabaye.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

You don't agree with that? Which player of those wouldn't make the starting 11?

Just so you recall what a top flight team looks like, let me refresh.

------- Rooney - Van Persie
---Young -- Kagawa -- Valencia
------------ Carrick ------------
Evra - Ferdinand - Vidic - Rafael
----------- de Gea

Of those:
Kagawa ---> Wilshere.
Carrick ---> Toure, Dembele

The rest are trolling.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Just so you recall what a top flight team looks like, let me refresh.

------- Rooney - Van Persie
---Young -- Kagawa -- Valencia
------------ Carrick ------------
Evra - Ferdinand - Vidic - Rafael
----------- de Gea

Of those:
Kagawa ---> Wilshere.
Carrick ---> Toure, Dembele

The rest are trolling.

United's main problem has been giving up goals due to no presence in mid.

You crack jokes about Liverpool, but as Diane said, Lucas and Allen both walk into that team. Just look at that lineup, their is 5 guys completely dedicated to attacking, leaving Carrick by himself to try and control the midfield.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Just so you recall what a top flight team looks like, let me refresh.

------- Rooney - Van Persie
---Young -- Kagawa -- Valencia
------------ Carrick ------------
Evra - Ferdinand - Vidic - Rafael
----------- de Gea

Of those:
Kagawa ---> Wilshere.
Carrick ---> Toure, Dembele

The rest are trolling.

the problem is that formation

you can play with a front 5 vs a bottom 5 team, if they threw that lineup out against a top half team in England they get killed on the counter

every big team plays at least 2 CMs who can defend, play box to box and win the ball

Barca: Busquets/Xavi
RM: Khedira/Modric/Alonso
Bayern: Schweinsteiger/Kroos/Martinez

and in England

City (Toure + Barry/Milner/Garcia)
Spurs (Dembele + Sandro/Parker)
Chelsea (Ramires + Mikel/Lampard)
Arsenal (Arteta + Wilshere/Diaby)
Liverpool (Lucas + Allen/Gerrard/Sahin)

and United always play with 2 of Carrick/Scholes/Anderson/Giggs, outside of cup games and other throwaways

[d_phaneuf]

you can't possibly believe that Carrick is better than Sandro/Ramires/Arteta/Cabaye (I could add others in but those 4 along with Dembele/Wilshere are clearly a level above the rest, besides Toure who is in another stratosphere)

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by devo22

I do agree with most on that list, but there are some among them who I wouldn't even touch with a ten-foot pole. They just should have tried to get Dembele in the summer, he would have been the perfect addition. The names they should be looking at now are Strootman, Witsel, Wanyama, Fellaini, Gündogan, Moutinho, Tiote and Cabaye.

It was interesting to hear on MOTD last week Phil Neville said that Fellaini thinks of himself as a defensive midfielder, I thought he was the one who wanted to push forward

I think any 2 of that group and they are set with a balance 4-2-3-1/4-2-4 and it gives them a lot more options

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

United's main problem has been giving up goals due to no presence in mid.

You crack jokes about Liverpool, but as Diane said, Lucas and Allen both walk into that team. Just look at that lineup, their is 5 guys completely dedicated to attacking, leaving Carrick by himself to try and control the midfield.

Just to be clear, Joe Allen, is not as good as Michael Carrick.

The goals are due to back's not getting the balls out, and not having more midfield help. That's on the formation, and AM's. Clev/Anderson/Kagawa. Opponents only need rain balls in, and calamity ensues between 2 unassertive, mediocre (so far) goalkeepers, and CB's who are not playing their top game.

Blaming Carrick seems to be the uneducated choice topic, since the last CL Final loss, when he was cut apart by Iniesta & Xavi. It's a sham he isn't the top choice holder for country as he is club. He is a box-to-box safe holding passer, with I'd hazard the best passing stats in the prem right now, if not top 3
(I'm sure someone will challenge me on this and cite this for me)

I think we're going to see more of Rooney playing midfield role if United doesn't buy a new midfielder. He is leading the prem in assists. (looked odd playing wing last weekend may I add)

------- Hernandez -- Van Persie
-Young -- Carrick -- Rooney -- Valencia
---Evra - Ferdinand - Vidic - Rafael
--------------- de Gea

[The Big Chill]

I don't think anybody is speaking poorly of Carrick. The point is that he can't do it alone. You really think Rooney is going to be able to handle the defensive responsibilities of playing CM?

It's easy to fault CBs when goals go in, and sometimes it is their fault, but there really is no replacement for having the proper protection in front of them.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I don't think anybody is speaking poorly of Carrick. The point is that he can't do it alone. You really think Rooney is going to be able to handle the defensive responsibilities of playing CM?

It's easy to fault CBs when goals go in, and sometimes it is their fault, but there really is no replacement for having the proper protection in front of them.

Rooney does actually well into the box often. Do I think he can handle it?
I think he is capable of playing any position on the field, more than almost anyone else out there.

Can he be convinced to be a midfielder..?
Great question, that I don't know the answer to.

[The Big Chill]

But the point of the conversation was that any of the listed players could walk into the United side and improve it. That point still stands. United could control a game a lot better and leak less goals if one of those players paired Carrick in midfield, and one of Valencia or Young were dropped.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

and United always play with 2 of Carrick/Scholes/Anderson/Giggs, outside of cup games and other throwaways

Central Midfielders:
Kagawa: Quite good, but hurt
Anderson: Quite good, but hurt.
Cleverly: Above average, but not good enough for a flight squad.
Scholes: Old boy's finally starting to fall behind. Last season
Giggs: Old boy's days past him a couple seasons go. Last Season

Last fall, until they were hurt, Cleverly and Anderson were shredding teams.

Of the above, many of who you originally quoted could partner with Carrick.

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

But the point of the conversation was that any of the listed players could walk into the United side and improve it. That point still stands. United could control a game a lot better and leak less goals if one of those players paired Carrick in midfield, and one of Valencia or Young were dropped.

Simply defending Carrick's role. If Rooney, wants to play CM with Carrick, I see very few that displace either of them.

[d_phaneuf]

Kagawa isn't a central midfielder, he's a number 10, plays in the hole behind the striker or sometimes out wide

Cleverly has been christened as the next big thing but so far outside of a few good games hasn't done it

Anderson is I think better than he gets credit for, but he's still not the level of a top side player

They can all partner Carrick, but it gives a huge weakness to a United team against good sides

They throw that partnership up against a possession based side with a strong midfield and they aren't going to see a lot of the ball

[devo22]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Last fall, until they were hurt, Cleverly and Anderson were shredding teams.

exactly, they were extremely good while Carrick was on the bench all the time. It was just when Kevin Davies decided to put Cleverley on the sideline with a stupid tackle and Anderson began having knee problems again. I still believe the two could form a very good CM pair, they just have to stay fit for a change. It's really the only thing that has held Anderson back ... everytime he goes on a roll, he's injured again.

To get back to Diane's list: I agree on Ramires, Dembele, Wilshere, Sandro, Tiote and Cabaye. Plus Toure obviously, he's the best player in that list without any doubt. I definitely don't agree with Barry and Milner. I wouldn't take Parker or Lucas over Carrick, and still prefer Anderson/Cleverley over someone like Arteta or Allen.

[The Big Chill]

Parker, Lucas, and Allen are among league leaders in tackling over the past couple seasons. They are also very good at linking play with the forwards. They would all fill a role that is much needed at United, along with the other names you already agreed with.

[Jimmy Stang]

I stumbled a across a free, legal way to listen to the live audio commentary for all Premier League matches and even some cups. For those outside of Europe, at least. In English, Spanish, and Mandarin to boot.

TalkSport.com is a UK radio station, but they also have the rights to distribute live audio outside of Europe for every match. You can listen on a mobile device and even listen to games that have passed. The only downside is that you have to sign up with your email address, but that seems fair to me.

Just thought I's pass it along if your team's game isn't on TV or you're out and about during the match. They've even got the Capital One Cup matches next week, which likely won't be (legally) available on TV in Canada. Norwich vs. Villa. Awwww yeah.

[Locke]

Manchester United's hopes of signing Robert Lewandowski in the January transfer window have been halted, with Borussia Dortmund confirming the striker will remain in the Bundesliga.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...ki-bid?cc=5901

Lewadowski staying put for now.

[polak]

These rumors can't be great for Dortmund