A Man About to Die on the New York Post Cover Today

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by valo403

Guard rails that open how? And where? There are at least 3 styles of trains that operate just on the 2 lines that I use regularly, there are probably another 3 or on other lines. Each has doors at different locations.

Wait, so the trains are different sizes? I guess I just assumed they were all the same and the openings would be the same. That's how it was like in the HK MTR I was at. The trains always stopped where the doors lined up. I figured you could have some sort of guardrail along then line and then just leave it open at the doors. People can still fall through I guess, but only at the gaps where the doors opened to.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Ya, I understand it would be expensive, but billions of dollars??

Of course billions, this isn't just throwing up some plexi glass and calling it a day. There are 468 stations in the system, some have 3 or 4 platforms that would need to have these systems installed. You think you can have one of these put in for less than $1million on each side of a platform?

There are currently 14 different types of train cars in use, many of which have doors at different locations, so either the system must be made to adapt to the different locations or trains must all be the same. So add that to the mix.

Then add maintenance etc., not to mention the cost of shutting down lines to install these, and the costs continue to soar. And all of this for an entity that has seen it's budget slashed again and again.

[gargamel]

Do subway trains in NYC stop at the exact same spot every time? That's what impresses me so much about the trains in Hong Kong - if they go a few feet too far, the openings to the train wouldn't match up with the openings to the wall, and no one could get on. Without permanent markers, I can't tell whether other trains are that precise. If so, it would be easy to put up barriers with gates in subway systems that only use one type of train, but that wouldn't work otherwise.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Is the schedule of trains completely disrupted if the conductors slow down before they reach the station? That might be the cheapest solution.

I would think so, trains at peak hours are running right behind each other. You end up stopped in the tunnels quite frequently waiting for the train ahead to clear the station.

At the end of the day almost 6 million people use the subway system every day, and I believe something like this has happened twice.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by valo403

Of course billions, this isn't just throwing up some plexi glass and calling it a day. There are 468 stations in the system, some have 3 or 4 platforms that would need to have these systems installed. You think you can have one of these put in for less than $1million on each side of a platform?

There are currently 14 different types of train cars in use, many of which have doors at different locations, so either the system must be made to adapt to the different locations or trains must all be the same. So add that to the mix.

Then add maintenance etc., not to mention the cost of shutting down lines to install these, and the costs continue to soar. And all of this for an entity that has seen it's budget slashed again and again.

I spent a month in London this past summer, which has a similar volume of users per day to New York, and only recall seeing this in one or two stations (Waterloo being one). I would imagine it is either a trial to see effectiveness, or possibly just one of the highest traffic stations. Im guessing that means London Underground, or at least the lines running through Waterloo, all use standardized cars.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Indeed, you can't simply overreact to these rare (albeit horrfying) instances. Besides, I'm not sure you can stop a crazy person from doing crazy things when they are going crazy. Not sure how you stop the crazies in life.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

I spent a month in London this past summer, which has a similar volume of users per day to New York, and only recall seeing this in one or two stations (Waterloo being one). I would imagine it is either a trial to see effectiveness, or possibly just one of the highest traffic stations. Im guessing that means London Underground, or at least the lines running through Waterloo, all use standardized cars.

Isn't Waterloo also new (or completely renovated)? I remember seeing this in a London station around 2002, just can't remember which one. It's also present at the Olympic Park station in Sydney, which is very high volume after events.

It would be a great addition to new stations where the trains are standardized, but I'm not sure there's anywhere in the NYC system like that. Fulton St. is the only new/full renovation I know of but I'm not sure about the trains there.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Is the schedule of trains completely disrupted if the conductors slow down before they reach the station? That might be the cheapest solution.

When I was in San Francisco we took the bart system (train) to Oakland to catch a raiders game. It was my first train experience outside of Calgary or an airport and I was blown away at the speeds these things come in at.
That said, I went quite a distance in no time. Slowing down prior to the stations would drastically slow the commute times. Its a question of what is more important to these systems...efficiency or however many lives are taken.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by valo403

Isn't Waterloo also new (or completely renovated)? I remember seeing this in a London station around 2002, just can't remember which one. It's also present at the Olympic Park station in Sydney, which is very high volume after events.

It would be a great addition to new stations where the trains are standardized, but I'm not sure there's anywhere in the NYC system like that. Fulton St. is the only new/full renovation I know of but I'm not sure about the trains there.

Just looked it up- part of renovations to Jubilee line, but the major incentive for installing them in London wasn't for saftey

They were designed primarily to reduce the movement of air caused by emergency ventilation fans which activate in event of a fire, or under test conditions.

Anyways, here is a wikipedia synopsis on the transit systems that use them in some form

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_screen_doors

[Ozy_Flame]

Tokyo has track safety measures to prevent people falling, and this is an organization that has two major companies (Tokyo Metro and Toei) running a multitude of lines with different styles of trains. They have implemented platform doors at major stations, and will be doing so over their entire 274-station Tokyo network.

It's not impossible at all.

[mrgreen]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

How did someone take a photo of him in that spot and there is no one around trying to pull him out of the way??

Because it's America.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Tokyo has track safety measures to prevent people falling, and this is an organization that has two major companies (Tokyo Metro and Toei) running a multitude of lines with different styles of trains. They have implemented platform doors at major stations, and will be doing so over their entire 274-station Tokyo network.

It's not impossible at all.

Nobody said it was impossible, it's simply not realistic given the costs involved. Take a look at the MTA budget.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Tokyo has track safety measures to prevent people falling, and this is an organization that has two major companies (Tokyo Metro and Toei) running a multitude of lines with different styles of trains. They have implemented platform doors at major stations, and will be doing so over their entire 274-station Tokyo network.

It's not impossible at all.

There apparently was a fatal accident involving the platform doors in Tokyo at one point.

[Table 5]

With the sheer volume of people riding the trains in NY (and having it's fair share of crazies), I'm actually surprised this kind of stuff doesn't happen more.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

With the sheer volume of people riding the trains in NY (and having it's fair share of crazies), I'm actually surprised this kind of stuff doesn't happen more.

I cant speak for New York, but I'm pretty shocked that it happens at all.

These are trains. They run on tracks. Dont go on the tracks, those are for the trains, you'll have a bad time. Problem solved.

Now this guy was unfortunate as some psycho shoved him onto the tracks right as a train was coming. There may have been a way for him to save his life, some other direction or rolling under a cutout, who knows, but panic is certainly understandable in his position.

Even the blackout drunk dont pass out on train tracks. Its almost exclusively either a tragic accident or a willful move.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Locke

I cant speak for New York, but I'm pretty shocked that it happens at all.

These are trains. They run on tracks. Dont go on the tracks, those are for the trains, you'll have a bad time. Problem solved.

Now this guy was unfortunate as some psycho shoved him onto the tracks right as a train was coming. There may have been a way for him to save his life, some other direction or rolling under a cutout, who knows, but panic is certainly understandable in his position.

Even the blackout drunk dont pass out on train tracks. Its almost exclusively either a tragic accident or a willful move.

Is that so?
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05...-26-rail-cars/

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by valo403

There are some questions as to what lead up to this, some reports say the victim was trying to help the perpetrator and asking him what was wrong while others say the victim initiated a confrontation and was drunk. Either way he certainly didn't deserve anything like this.

I'm not sure what someone calling the cops would have done, this wasn't a hour long fight, it was a quick occurring event.

In New York City I'm pretty sure there's a cop of some type in pretty much every station. (as far as I could tell)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Is that so?
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05...-26-rail-cars/

I stand corrected. I was referring to passenger trains and the LRT but that is even more remarkable.

[polak]

Guard rail with manual doors/gates that only open away from the train. Just like you see at the crossing at Shawnessy Station.

Solves two problems.

1) No more people falling in (or at least, the risk is greatly reduced)
2) No more little ladies standing infront of the doors and running on the train, pushing through everyone, so they can get a seat before the people exiting the train can even get off.

Guard rails require almost no maintenence and as for the lining up of the train doors, you could have a wide enough section of gates (say 4 gates wide, covering 6-8ft) to account for the difference in stopping.

As an aside, C-Trains not being standarized is a very stupid, costly practice. The price of carrying parts for 3 different types of trains and training mechanics and drivers for all of them is significant.

What else could you expect from Calgary Transh*t

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Byrns

In New York City I'm pretty sure there's a cop of some type in pretty much every station. (as far as I could tell)

No there is not