NFL player kills girlfriend then shoots himself in front of GM and coach

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by T@T

Concussions,depression are not an excuse for murder

Reasons are not excuses. No one is saying that he was justified in killing his girlfriend, however in examining the potential causative factors it is possible to examine ways of prevention of these crimes in the future. At least to a greater degree than saying he was a scumbag.

[taco.vidal]

From Facebook a couple of months ago.

Pretty tragic.

[JonDuke]

I'm not here to discount that concussions and head injuries MAY have played a role in this, but...so could gangster rap, depression, a drug/gambling or any other addiction, video games, etc.

Remember when quite a few years ago, people used to blame the acts of murderous teenagers on "satanic" heavy metal? It was always the first conclusion people jumped at. Simply because it was a teenager who wore black.

Why do people do the same now, but just automatically bring up head injuries when an athlete goes nuts.

I don't think Iginlas post was ignorant at all by suggesting there was "probably none" as to a chance this was related to head injuries. Cause he's right. It MAY be head injuries, but there a better chance that it wasn't.

There's quite a large number of current and former football players who experienced multiple concussions and I would bet that the ratio of those players that turned murderers is quite low.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Unless there were studies linking heavy metal to encephalopathy I don't see the correlation between the two. I think that your argument falls apart when you mention depression, a mental illness which is associated with concussions.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by T@T

Concussions,depression are not an excuse for murder

Spoken like someone who has zero understanding of psychology or the problems that can occur in the human mind. Nobody is making an excuse here however you simply don't one day go and do what this guy did in this manner without some serious mental issue. If you do not have mens rea at the time you cannot be held responsible for your actions. Even the law says so.

[JonDuke]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

... I think that your argument falls apart when you mention depression, a mental illness which is associated with concussions.

True. Associated with. But people never exposed to head trauma also experience depression as well. That's what I meant.

[JonDuke]

Looks like his legit Facebook profile:
https://www.facebook.com/jovan.belcher

Ironic that one of his listed "Favorites" is Male Athletes Against Violence.

[afc wimbledon]

It would equally be stupid to conclude that this had anything to do with concussion or didn't either, there are plenty of idiot ######bags that kill their significant others for all kinds of reasons, the most comman being seperations combined with liberal doses of wild turkey.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It would equally be stupid to conclude that this had anything to do with concussion

No one is concluding anything, how is that so hard to understand. Anyone that understands psychology knows that these things are correlative, so it is reasonable to suggest a correlation between brain trauma and violent behavior/suicide because there has been a correlation in the past. This is not complex, it is basic psychology. The likelihood is that an autopsy will show brain damage and the presence of psychoactive drugs because of the strong correlation between the three things, scientific trends predict a correlation based on variables attributable to Belcher. There's also the chance that the brain damage was so severe and so overtly hidden by Belcher's colleagues (to keep him on the field) that the autopsy results won't be released.

[sureLoss]

Wow Jovan Belcher had a bachelors degree in child development and family relations from University of Maine.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by vektor

No one is concluding anything, how is that so hard to understand. Anyone that understands psychology knows that these things are correlative, so it is reasonable to suggest a correlation between brain trauma and violent behavior/suicide because there has been a correlation in the past. This is not complex, it is basic psychology. The likelihood is that an autopsy will show brain damage and the presence of psychoactive drugs because of the strong correlation between the three things, scientific trends predict a correlation based on variables attributable to Belcher. There's also the chance that the brain damage was so severe and so overtly hidden by Belcher's colleagues (to keep him on the field) that the autopsy results won't be released.

If that aint you making a conclusion I don't know what is.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If that aint you making a conclusion I don't know what is.

do you know the difference between a conclusion and a prediction?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by vektor

do you know the difference between a conclusion and a prediction?

Within the context of the information we have, none other than a footballer shot his girlfriend, there is no difference.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Within the context of the information we have, none other than a footballer shot his girlfriend, there is no difference.

are you trolling me? Guessing at the cause (due to likely factors) is some how the same as positing something as definitive? Get a life, go annoy someone else with your contrarian attitude

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Within the context of the information we have, none other than a footballer shot his girlfriend, there is no difference.

So you don't think there's a difference between a prediction and a conclusion?

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Probably none.

Murder suicides happen all the time outside of the sports world.

Holy moly you are proving day in and day out to be the one of the worst posters on here.

Concussions have a gigantic affect on how a person thinks. Look no further than Chris Benoit

[carom]

Ok first of all very serious thread, first post by vecktor made me think of this:

Doctor: Well, You're a little banged up but no serious injury's. Just keep off your feet for a few days.
Happy Gilmore: To Hell with that, I gotta finish up.
Doctor: Fine! Do whatever you like. What would I know, I'm just a Doctor.

Secondly, we really don't know anything yet so it is futile for us to jump to conclusions. Not every football player has suffured multiple concussions and not everyone suffers the same effect from concussions. I think this is what we know, but I may be wrong.

[PIMking]

I'm sorry, I've had two confirmed concussions (one was nasty) and probably a few other small ones that I "passed" the how many finger test and I've never had the feeling to actually murder someone.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I'm sorry, I've had two confirmed concussions (one was nasty) and probably a few other small ones that I "passed" the how many finger test and I've never had the feeling to actually murder someone.

Oh, well case closed then.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by vektor

are you trolling me? Guessing at the cause (due to likely factors) is some how the same as positing something as definitive? Get a life, go annoy someone else with your contrarian attitude

What likely factor? he's a football player that did something awefull is all you or I know.

He may or may not have concussion syndrome, even if he did that syndrome may or may not have been a factor in his crime.

That concussion is flavour du jour is about all this is based on