Beware illegal downloaders: Data is being collected on you to crack down on piracy in

[photon]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Since when did it become okay to commit any form of crime?

Who's saying it is ok?

As already pointed out, there's a difference between a reason and a justification.

There's a reason people speed, jaywalk, steal their nighbour's wifi, and download copyrighted material. Those reasons don't make the actions legal, but the reasons should inform the discussion about the laws and if they need changing.

Enforcement isn't the only aspect to consider.

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Another point to consider - perhaps someone can answer this for me.

I want to watch the first season of Friends. The first season is readily available to me (technically) skewn across the multitude of Cable channels I already subscribe to, and could probably be collected by me via PVR if I was not being lazy, over the course of a week or two.

Is that stealing if I download it illegally?

A perfect example, strictly speaking it's probably illegal to download depending on the source (i.e. was a digital lock broken to get the content, etc). Is it immoral? I don't think so.

So the government can either serve the industry by creating laws that support their attempts to limit things and enforce the status quo, or the government can create laws that serve society and try to balance the rights holders and consumers rights, so the rights holders would have to keep pace with society rather than trying to hold it back.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by pylon

The problem is, just like piracy, once people realize you can get away with this means of obtaining admission, eventually a large majority of people will be doing it, and you will have a half empty lower bowl, and a bunch of cheap neck beards standing in the concourse watching through a seas of people next to the pocket dawg stand.

That hasn't proven to be true though. The real alternative is that people are just not going to consume the product.

I'll give you a personal example of this:

Battlestar Gallactia - I watched this show religiously when it was on, but due to personal circumstances I ended up missing a bunch of episodes in the 2nd half of the 2nd season. I didn't want to watch any of the other episodes because I would have lost my place in the series. I didn't have a PVR.

I waited for the 2nd season to come out on DVD - it was released one f***ing week before the 3rd season began.

I couldn't watch it before the start of the 3rd season.

I stopped watching the series. I still haven't watched the 4th and final season, even though I consider it an amazing series from what I watched of it.

The reality is if the distribution model was different or I was able to access a show on demand, they would not have lost a consumer. Which they did.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Honestly?

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing my cable / Internet bill for each month being about $129, and realizing that I haven't watched a single thing on TV apart from maybe a couple hours of NFL football or a non-existant Flames game and maybe a little bit of Sportscentre.

Then cancel your TV services. Nobody is forcing you to pay for something you don't want. Buy NFL Sunday ticket online and an HDMI cable and pay for the content you only want.

That is what I hate about the whole argument. People justify it as their right to steal content because it is too expensive to buy the legit product. Yet the product is still valuable enough to them they are willing to bitch and moan about it, and subsequently break the law to obtain the said content.

It boils down to software pirates being a bunch of cheap asses.

[PsYcNeT]

Regardless of the whole argument, everyone should be investing in a US VPN by this point anyway (if not for torrents, then at least for US Netflix/Hulu).

www.purevpn.com

www.hidemyass.com

Either will get you started on the path to enlightenment.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by pylon

I have always posed this example to content Pirates.

If you could duplicate an exact replica of a Calgary Flames ticket, that guaranteed you access to the arena for games, would you use it to print tickets for personal use? If your answer is no, then you should be against piracy, because it is the exact same thing. If you rip a counterfeit album you have no tangible "thing". If you pirate admission to a game neither do you as well. Like c'mon.... have you seen the price for those new fangly hockey tickets, they are expensive as hell. I should steal them because I am OWED the right to admission, because I like the team. Same goes for airline tickets. Damn flights overseas are pricey. I should pirate those too. Hey Jetfuel, and 777 maintenance is free right?

The only reason people are piracy apologists, is so they can justify the fact they know they are stealing someone else's product or service.

I agree with this post, except for the bolded part. Downloading content is theft, although not in the strictest or traditional sense. Arguing it isn't in some circumstances is semantics really, and has been covered in a few places in this thread, so I don't want to do into in here.

If I can watch a episode of a TV show, lets say The Walking Dead, because I subscribe AMC. I can watch it on any TV in my house, I can PVR it to watch at a later time, and I can even watch it on Shaw on Demand for free, online anywhere.

You could reasonably assume that I have paid to consume that content, with my subscription fees.

What if I wanted to watch that same episode on transit while I am travelling to work? I could use several format shifting options to do convert the content into a format that I can watch (PVR -> DVD -> Video File, Record video on my monitor, etc).

Should that be illegal? I can already watch this content in several places already and I paid for the ability to do that. It is no different than ripping a CD to your PC to put onto your phone/ipod/whatever.

[Azure]

Viable alternatives to cable and buying each movie on DVD are getting better. Netflix, iTunes, Hulu(not available in Canada) etc, etc. So there is a shift in the industry, and I suspect 5 years from now, piracy won't be much of a problem.

For me, I don't illegally download close to the amount of music that I did 5 years ago. Why? Pandora Radio. I have to bypass the Canadian restriction, but I honestly don't even listen to my own collection of music anymore. Rdio, Spotify and others are the same way.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

There are legitimate and persuasive arguments against digital piracy. Equating digital copying with physical theft is not one of them, and makes you look really stupid. Don't do it.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by pylon

I have always posed this example to content Pirates.

If you could duplicate an exact replica of a Calgary Flames ticket, that guaranteed you access to the arena for games, would you use it to print tickets for personal use? If your answer is no, then you should be against piracy, because it is the exact same thing. If you rip a counterfeit album you have no tangible "thing". If you pirate admission to a game neither do you as well. Like c'mon.... have you seen the price for those new fangly hockey tickets, they are expensive as hell. I should steal them because I am OWED the right to admission, because I like the team. Same goes for airline tickets. Damn flights overseas are pricey. I should pirate those too. Hey Jetfuel, and 777 maintenance is free right?

The only reason people are piracy apologists, is so they can justify the fact they know they are stealing someone else's product or service.

Where do you draw the line though? Is something like using a VPN for US Netflix piracy? Yeah someone who does that is paying for the service, but the rights holders aren't being compensated for it being viewed in Canada. Is that stealing? Or my friend who cancelled cable and uses unblock.us to get Blue Jays games with MLB.tv, is that stealing?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I agree with this post, except for the bolded part.

If I can watch a episode of a TV show, lets say The Walking Dead, because I subscribe AMC. I can watch it on any TV in my house, I can PVR it to watch at a later time, and I can even watch it on Shaw on Demand for free, online anywhere.

You could reasonably assume that I have paid to consume that content, with my subscription fees.

What if I wanted to watch that same episode on transit while I am travelling to work? I could use several format shifting options to do convert the content into a format that I can watch (PVR -> DVD -> Video File, Record video on my monitor, etc).

Should that be illegal? I can already watch this content in several places already and I paid for the ability to do that. It is no different than ripping a CD to your PC to put onto your phone/ipod/whatever.

Exactly.

There are people out that that subscribe to nothing, and download everything illegally. But there are a lot of people that subscribe to various different ways of watching TV, movies, etc, etc....and sometimes we pirate stuff because it is the quickest way to watch an episode we missed.

[Flash Walken]

I welcome absurd internet laws.

They serve to motivate the development of new and exciting technologies designed in part to bypass these restrictions.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Regardless of the whole argument, everyone should be investing in a US VPN by this point anyway (if not for torrents, then at least for US Netflix/Hulu).

www.purevpn.com

www.hidemyass.com

Either will get you started on the path to enlightenment.

Is your assertion that this is better than downloading content?

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I welcome absurd internet laws.

They serve to motivate the development of new and exciting technologies designed in part to bypass these restrictions.

And then the CRTC keeps them out because the don't have enough Tom Cochrane.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by pylon

. Nobody is forcing you to pay for something you don't want.

Its funny I purposely used the word forcing because I knew someone would pull this lame argument, funny that you quoted camronLS when it was me that said it.

But in response to your above quote they actually are FORCING me to pay for something I don't want because I can't get x channel without being forced to buy the entire package. Are they forcing me to buy cable? no.

[Raekwon]

I use https://cloudnymous.com/

They offer a monthly/Per use/ and free sites and simple to use software for those that don't want to set it up themselves.

Prices are different for every location they have but range arounf $5/month or $0.15 per day for per use.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Sneaking into a hockey game and taking an empty seat that wasn't going to be used anyway is stealing? If anything it offers a chance for the company to make money in other ways ie: alcohol, concession etc.

The Flames have to staff the dome according to attendance. That includes cleaning staff, ushers, security, etc. I know you're "just one guy" but this crime still does damage to the business.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by pylon

Then cancel your TV services. Nobody is forcing you to pay for something you don't want. Buy NFL Sunday ticket online and an HDMI cable and pay for the content you only want.

So when the NHL comes back, what do you suggest I do if I want to watch the Flames?

I cannot use Centre Ice because of local blackout restrictions.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Where do you draw the line though? Is something like using a VPN for US Netflix piracy? Yeah someone who does that is paying for the service, but the rights holders aren't being compensated for it being viewed in Canada. Is that stealing? Or my friend who cancelled cable and uses unblock.us to get Blue Jays games with MLB.tv, is that stealing?

I am not going to claim to be lily white on the VPN issue. I am on a VPN almost exclusively so I can access US Netflix. But I am still paying for Netflix. I get there are Canadian laws (######ed ones at that) that demand I watch a certain amount of Beachcombers and Mr D episodes a la "A clockwork Orange" style, and that I do not agree with. Is it a questionable grey area? sure. Is it illegal however? No. VPNs are not illegal, stealing movies and games is.

But at the end of the day, I am still paying for my services. My VPN membership is 80 bucks a year or something, and I still pay the monthly Netflix fee. Nobody is getting shafted.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

So when the NHL comes back, what do you suggest I do if I want to watch the Flames?

I cannot use Centre Ice because of local blackout restrictions.

Wait until the season comes out on DVD next year.

[darockwilder]

The only things I ever download are TV shows that are unavailable in Canada, typically stuff on TNT and FX (before it came up here). I pay $95 a month for TV and still purchase CD's (which is getting harder every day) so if downloading an episode of 'Southland' earns me a $5,000 fine there is something wrong in the world. I'm not really interested in doing all this VPN stuff, but maybe I'll have to.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Exactly.

There are people out that that subscribe to nothing, and download everything illegally. But there are a lot of people that subscribe to various different ways of watching TV, movies, etc, etc....and sometimes we pirate stuff because it is the quickest way to watch an episode we missed.

And yeah, I get that. I pay for Shaw cable, and if I am home, will watch the Flames game on TV. I am not going to say I won't stream the game via a questionable Russian source if I am at work, because I do, and will continue to do so. But I have already paid for it by buying a ticket as a STH and paid my cable bill.

However, an album, movie, or game is different. The producers get one shot to sell it to you, and once you have consumed it the case of a game or movie, you are likely to never touch it again.