iPhone vs Android

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Because you never show the ENTIRE stats(and no links). You just pick and choose.And i don't think apple will die. It will just go the way of RIM in the next 3-4 years.

this is a thread about Android vs iOs. Android is a juggernaut.

Hate to even get involved in this argument, but no way Apple will go the way of RIM. They have a much wider selection of products, and are not just limited to phones.

You have a computer line, tablet line, phone line, music products line, Itunes, Apple TV....

I'll be the first to agree that Apple has gotten a little stagnent, but to suggest that it will go the way of RIM is pretty unlikely.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

Hate to even get involved in this argument, but no way Apple will go the way of RIM. They have a much wider selection of products, and are not just limited to phones.

You have a computer line, tablet line, phone line, music products line, Itunes, Apple TV....

I'll be the first to agree that Apple has gotten a little stagnent, but to suggest that it will go the way of RIM is pretty unlikely.

Who really knows where it will end up. Did anyone in 1999 really think that Rim would be where it is now? As a cell phone though, i can't see the iphone even having 5% of marketshare in about 3-4 years time, unless something game changing happens.

[edslunch]

This chart suggests that Apple isn't in any danger just yet...

[Rathji]

Using only carefully selected metrics to back your 'position', you could easily show that Apple or Samsung (or iOS/Android) is either winning the smartphone war, or losing horribly.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Using only carefully selected metrics to back your 'position', you could easily show that Apple or Samsung (or iOS/Android) is either winning the smartphone war, or losing horribly.

It also depends what you mean by winning:
Profit: Apple
Volume: Android
Desirability: Both Apple and Android sell briskly in the markets they target so no clear winner

[Senator Clay Davis]

There's only one true measurable for winning and it is profit. If Android outsells Apple 10:1 but Apple's profit is still higher and in fact Android is losing money, Android has won what exactly? But there's the rub for Apple: If the iPhone sales start to slide in any significant way, Apple is in deep trouble as a company. This of course is the problem with having 70% of your profit coming from one unit.

[Rathji]

How is profit winning? In whose eyes? The customer?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Profit is why a business exists. Period. If it isn't doing that, it is losing. To both the business and its shareholders, profit is the only thing that matters. To consumers? Well consumers help in deciding who is and isn't profitble. Sales alone aren't a good enough measurable though, because there are lots of companies who lose money who have good sales. Profit, in the business world, is truly the only measure of "winning and losing"

[Azure]

Well Samsung is the only company out of out of the phone manufacturers whose profit is rising. Apple has stagnated, no?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Samsung's profit is indeed rising, and Apple's is falling, though for Apple its a cost issue more than anything. Bertuzzied put up the link but the costs relating to the iPhone 5 keep going up, driving down profit expectations. I think Apple will miss expectations again in January.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

There's only one true measurable for winning and it is profit. If Android outsells Apple 10:1 but Apple's profit is still higher and in fact Android is losing money, Android has won what exactly? But there's the rub for Apple: If the iPhone sales start to slide in any significant way, Apple is in deep trouble as a company. This of course is the problem with having 70% of your profit coming from one unit.

Android is the operating system name. Google is the company.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Samsung's profit is indeed rising, and Apple's is falling, though for Apple its a cost issue more than anything. Bertuzzied put up the link but the costs relating to the iPhone 5 keep going up, driving down profit expectations. I think Apple will miss expectations again in January.

$370 to make an iphone, a product they are going to sell over 20 million units of is INSANE!

They needed to move their plants from China to Vietnam or Indonesia.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Profit is why a business exists. Period. If it isn't doing that, it is losing. To both the business and its shareholders, profit is the only thing that matters. To consumers? Well consumers help in deciding who is and isn't profitble. Sales alone aren't a good enough measurable though, because there are lots of companies who lose money who have good sales. Profit, in the business world, is truly the only measure of "winning and losing"

See, as a consumer, I don't care how much the company I bought my phone from has brought in in profits, as long as it is enough to ensure the company is viable, will remain in business, have a satisfactory app store, and I continue to receive OS updates.

- Market share seems to be the main factor in determining what apps are available from the app store, at a reasonable price, which as many Android manufacturers are proving, isn't directly related to profits.

- I don't think any current OS provider is in danger of going out of business, so OS updates are seeming to be unimpacted. RIM is obviously the biggest candidate here, but not really in the scope of an iPhone vs Android conversation

Winning to me is having a phone that does what I want it to, will be able to do what I want it to for as long as I don't drop it in the toilet or drive over it with my car. As long as the current company state doesn't interfere with that, then I win.

Who cares if Apple or Google wins? I don't. I just want to win by having a good phone.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Hmmm in other news, the iphone 5 costs apple an insane $370 to make! Seriously??

The analyst wrote in his research note that the cost of goods sold for the iPhone 5 in the December quarter will rise to $370 from $353, which will bring the gross margin for the phone down to 38.8 percent from 40 percent. That meant that the analyst’s earnings per share forecast for Apple for the quarter dropped to $14.76 from $15.28. For all of fiscal year 2013, the EPS estimate was cut to $51.49 from $53.36.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/a...or-apple.html/

Unless Apple has ridiculously higher non-production costs compared to their competitors, then pretty much every top end phone is up in that range. Most estimates have the materials and manufacturing costs for the iPhone to be in the $205-210 range which is right around estimates for the Galaxy S3 (about $200), the Note 2 (about $220), and HTC One X (about $190).

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Unless Apple has ridiculously higher non-production costs compared to their competitors, then pretty much every top end phone is up in that range. Most estimates have the materials and manufacturing costs for the iPhone to be in the $205-210 range which is right around estimates for the Galaxy S3 (about $200), the Note 2 (about $220), and HTC One X (about $190).

Well obviously they do if it costs them $370 to make 1 iphone 5. That plus all the duds they are turning out with scratches is insane. I'm sure although Google doesn't like overpricing hardware, i highly doubt they would be subsidizing every Nexus 4 they sell for $300.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Well obviously they do if it costs them $370 to make 1 iphone 5. That plus all the duds they are turning out with scratches is insane. I'm sure although Google doesn't like overpricing hardware, i highly doubt they would be subsidizing every Nexus 4 they sell for $300.

I'm not so sure. I think either that report is inaccurate or other companies are spending just as much to bring their phones to market. I mean, if Apple spends so much with a fairly similar sticker price to other top end phones, then why are they taking in nearly 80% of all mobile profits with a 10% market share? Something doesn't add up.

And Google sells its Nexus tablets more or less at cost, so it's not a stretch to suggest that their phones would be similar.

[Tinordi]

I'm sure Apple computers were much more profitable when they were competing with PCs.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Well obviously they do if it costs them $370 to make 1 iPhone 5. That plus all the duds they are turning out with scratches is insane. I'm sure although Google doesn't like overpricing hardware, i highly doubt they would be subsidizing every Nexus 4 they sell for $300.

Bert, you keep quoting this number $370 as if this is fact. Did Hargreaves actually get to look at the supply contracts of Apple? Does it make sense to you that every other estimate of $200 - $210 based on tear downs, are wrong and suddenly this report is right? And what is he including in the COGS? Initial start-up costs? amortized R&D costs? Or you are just looking for anything to support your partisan position?

[Bertuzzied]

Who knows. Unless there is an official apple release on how much it costs to make an iphone what number is to be believed. Course they could be paying triple overtime for their factories to produce enough for Xmas.

http://www.zdnet.com/analyst-iphone-...ns-7000007961/

According to Piper Jaffray's analyst Gene Munster's nightly checks on 100 Apple Stores, stock levels have shown dramatic improvements over the past couple of weeks.
This is more than likely down to the Cupertino, Calif.-based technology giant throwing significant amounts of money and resources at the problem to make sure there are enough iPhones for all the good little girls and boys this holiday season.
Apple could also be sacrificing gross profits in the short term in order to gain a foothold in the enterprise and education markets given that Hargreaves bought up the issue of "volume sales of iPad" driving lower gross. Apple's massive iOS profits have so far been primarily driven by consumer adoption of the iPhone and iPad.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I'm not so sure. I think either that report is inaccurate or other companies are spending just as much to bring their phones to market. I mean, if Apple spends so much with a fairly similar sticker price to other top end phones, then why are they taking in nearly 80% of all mobile profits with a 10% market share? Something doesn't add up.

And Google sells its Nexus tablets more or less at cost, so it's not a stretch to suggest that their phones would be similar.

80% of mobile profits? you better back that up!