Calgary Centre Federal By-election - Nov 26 (UPDATE - Crockatt wins for CPC)

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You're insulting because you obviously know nothing about me. You don't have a clue what I understand. I've been following politics since Diefenbaker. Just look at one of our posters signature, Flames, Wild Rose and CPC. Crockette has Wild Rose roots as well from what I understand. Maybe you should take a remedial reading course.

Woah - back up the bus. He wasn't the only one who didn't understand your post.

See here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=807

I was hoping for you to reply to that and explain the bolded part.

the only thing keeping a lot of the federal PC from crossing the line is the hold that Harper has on them.

Because there are no Federal PC's. PC's are provincial, so difficult to understand what hold Harper could have on them.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I had no intention to insult although it does read that way so I am sorry. I read two posts in a row from you responding to a comment about Elizabeth May and replying with provincial politics and a dig on the Wildrose.

I looked a bit for a Wildrose link to Joan Crockatt and all that I could find was that some of her campaigners worked for the Wildrose party as well. Using that logic though Nenshi has PC roots because Stephen Carter was heavily involved in his campaign and the PC's.

I don't think I referred at all to provincial politics until I brought up Crockatt. I was thinking of the CPC roots in the Reform Party as a lot of it's representatives being (IMO) wack jobs. Manning had the same problem as Harper in keeping herd on them. The Wild Rose is in the same position.


Maybe Nenshi is PC, I don't know enough about him. Klein was considered a Liberal until he joined the Conservatives to run for the Legislature.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Fire

If Calgary Centre voters wanted to do a protest vote they should have backed Turner and not a party with a deep rooted hatred and jealously of Alberta.

Blah blah blah. Like it was mentioned before what did Chretien and his majority liberal govt do to AB for those 8 years?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't think I referred at all to provincial politics until I brought up Crockatt. I was thinking of the CPC roots in the Reform Party as a lot of it's representatives being (IMO) wack jobs. Manning had the same problem as Harper in keeping herd on them. The Wild Rose is in the same position.


Maybe Nenshi is PC, I don't know enough about him. Klein was considered a Liberal until he joined the Conservatives to run for the Legislature.

In defense of the Reform Party, the CPC, and the WR, any time you start a new party, you are going to attract wack jobs.... and it takes some time to get rid of them.

Look how long its taken the NDP.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Woah - back up the bus. He wasn't the only one who didn't understand your post.

See here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=807

I was hoping for you to reply to that and explain the bolded part.


Because there are no Federal PC's. PC's are provincial, so difficult to understand what hold Harper could have on them.

When I say Federal PCs they are the CPC, it's pretty easy. I guess living out in BC for so many years I don't always distinguish between the two anymore as we don't have a provincial Conservative party of any note here. Also I've always thought of the CPC as the Conservative party as that is where part of their roots are. Hey I'm still having trouble converting to the metric system.

I replied to a similar post by Moon. In a nutshell Crokatt ran her platform on being a good party member who wouldn't raise any waves while staying in step with Harper. Now why would she do that unless there was a problem with being too out of step with the Calgary Centre constituents who probably have a more centrist bias than other Alberta ridings.

If you don't think that's a problem look at the Herald headlines.

Smith pledges Wildrose will be more careful in selecting candidates in next election

Sure they are different parties and ones provincial but the CPC have faced the same problem.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I think the Green leader is too polarizing to gain much traction in Alberta.

On the municipal level it is definitely true that most leaders are left of center. I don't think it is a Calgary thing either but more a result of their job. The Mayoral level is closest to the people and is responsible for the softer aspects of government. They also oversee a lot of social services on a micro level while the other levels of government have a much more macro oversight.

I think this line of reasoning also makes sense. The federal government can't make direct impact. In order for federal funding of a community center to take place first their needs to be a project put forth by a city, get its chunk of provincial funding through a comittee, then go to another comittee to get federal funding, then the MP needs to give the group a giant novelty sized check, then the money gets built.

If you have a smaller federal government and just give that money and taxation powers to the city, the city identifies the need and spends its money on it. You have to work to keep wack jobs off of council but really the election that directly affects people most is the civic elections, surprisingly it is also the election that people care about the least.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I live in Calgary Centre. And just what would we be protesting against?

I have no idea, but listening to the "progressive" supporters in this thread the Conservatives have ignored Calgary and we needed to put a scare in them. Again I have no idea why they believe this.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I replied to a similar post by Moon. In a nutshell Crokatt ran her platform on being a good party member who wouldn't raise any waves while staying in step with Harper. Now why would she do that unless there was a problem with being too out of step with the Calgary Centre constituents who probably have a more centrist bias than other Alberta ridings.

Maybe she did that because she agreed with Harper and didn't need/want to raise any waves. Or because she thought that by promoting Harper and his vision that it was the best way for her to get elected in the riding.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Addick

I do find it interesting that Turner managed to get a quarter of the votes. If they were able to become more like their German counterparts, I wonder if the Greens could become a viable left/centre party in Alberta.

Byelections are a great time to screw with the system and cast pointless protest votes because everyone knows the result will have no impact whatsoever in the balance of the House of Commons. Most of that support for the Greens will vanish once again in the next general election when the electorate is back in a state where winning one seat could make a difference.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Fire

I have no idea, but listening to the "progressive" supporters in this thread the Conservatives have ignored Calgary and we needed to put a scare in them. Again I have no idea why they believe this.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=111505

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by SebC

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=111505

My understanding is that P3 Canada is a Parent Crown Corporatation, just like the CBC, the Business Development Bank of Canada, CMHC, etc., etc.

Is this a mistake that P3 Canada made as a result of not quite understanding its mandate from the federal government (as in telling Calgary that it was ok to apply for funding when it really wasn't) or is this something where the federal government changed the rules that P3 must follow, in midstream (after Calgary had applied for funding)?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Rerun

My understanding is that P3 Canada is a Parent Crown Corporatation, just like the CBC, the Business Development Bank of Canada, CMHC, etc., etc.

Is this a mistake that P3 Canada made as a result of not quite understanding its mandate from the federal government (as in telling Calgary that it was ok to apply for funding when it really wasn't) or is this something where the federal government changed the rules that P3 must follow, in midstream (after Calgary had applied for funding)?

Changing the rules "mid-stream" would be an understatement. They deleted sport infrastructure from eligibility in the middle of the mayor's press conference eviscerating them!

It's ridiculous to say that P3 misinterpreted their mandate since their mandate was tabled in parliament and required cabinet approval. P3 Canada approached the City to pursue this funding specifically because it was for recreational facilities. Members of the Calgary Conservative caucus, were well aware of this application for two years - before it was cancelled by the PMO (after unanimous P3 board approval). The reasoning you repeated was the exact malarkey that Kenney and others spouted after (once they actually started talking at all).

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Fire

I have no idea, but listening to the "progressive" supporters in this thread the Conservatives have ignored Calgary and we needed to put a scare in them. Again I have no idea why they believe this.

It's not just ignoring Calgary. There are many people who will happily or grudgingly admit that the Conservatives have done ok with economy but are appalled by the way they operate and want to send them a message.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Changing the rules "mid-stream" would be an understatement. They deleted sport infrastructure from eligibility in the middle of the mayor's press conference eviscerating them!

It's ridiculous to say that P3 misinterpreted their mandate since their mandate was tabled in parliament and required cabinet approval. P3 Canada approached the City to pursue this funding specifically because it was for recreational facilities. Members of the Calgary Conservative caucus, were well aware of this application for two years - before it was cancelled by the PMO (after unanimous P3 board approval). The reasoning you repeated was the exact malarkey that Kenney and others spouted after (once they actually started talking at all).

Who is they? P3 Canada, the federal government, or both? Are you saying the federal government changed the rules for P3 Canada, after the application by Calgary?

Or is it a possibility that the rules against funding for recreation facilities were always in place and some people at P3 Canada and obviously some members of Calgary Conservative Caucus didn't know this... thus mistakes were made.

[Bunk]

Here's another fact about federal funding for Calgary. Current major Rapid Transit Projects across Canada;

Vancouver Evergreen Skytrain line extension: $1.4 Billion
Federal contribution $417 Million

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension $2.6 Billion
Federal contribution: $697 Million

Mississauga Bus Rapid Transit Project: $259 Million
Federal contribution: $83 Million

Ottawa LRT: $2.1 Billion
Federal contribution: $600 Million

Kitchener-Waterloo Rapid Transit/ LRT: $795 Million
Federal contribution: $265 Million


Calgary West LRT: $1.4 Billion
Federal contribution: $0


In Building Canada we got $54 million for Transit.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Who is they? P3 Canada, the federal government, or both? Are you saying the federal government changed the rules for P3 Canada, after the application by Calgary?

Or is it a possibility that the rules against funding for recreation facilities were always in place and some people at P3 Canada and obviously some members of Calgary Conservative Caucus didn't know this... thus mistakes were made.

The Federal Government. It's really fun talking to Greg Melchin about how all his happened.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ec-centre.html

More background here:
http://blog.calgarymayor.ca/2011/11/...pp-canada.html

This was the P3 Canada Mandate (before it was deleted mid-press conference) - one of the 16 categories of eligible projects - as given to P3 Canada by the Federal Government in all their guiding documents. Interestingly, for weeks all their material still said 16 eligible categories even though there were all the sudden only 15.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Are you saying the federal government changed the rules for P3 Canada, after the application by Calgary?

As described by Bunk, this is precisely what happened. Ultimately, all the Mayor asked for was to be made whole for the $3 million that the city had spent on its application given that they weren't going to grandfather it.

Basically the Feds did the Lucy / Charlie Brown football trick and we all ended up on our asses.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Here's another fact about federal funding for Calgary. Current major Rapid Transit Projects across Canada;

Vancouver Evergreen Skytrain line extension: $1.4 Billion
Federal contribution $417 Million

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension $2.6 Billion
Federal contribution: $697 Million

Mississauga Bus Rapid Transit Project: $259 Million
Federal contribution: $83 Million

Ottawa LRT: $2.1 Billion
Federal contribution: $600 Million

Kitchener-Waterloo Rapid Transit/ LRT: $795 Million
Federal contribution: $265 Million


Calgary West LRT: $1.4 Billion
Federal contribution: $0


In Building Canada we got $54 million for Transit.

You need to give more details on the timing of the Federal contributions for each project. When did the other projects get their funding? When did Calgary ask for funding?

If other projects got funding after Calgary was denied then you would have a complaint, but if Calgary asked for funding after the Conservatives decided to cut down on spending then that's just bad timing.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Fire

You need to give more details on the timing of the Federal contributions for each project. When did the other projects get their funding? When did Calgary ask for funding?

If other projects got funding after Calgary was denied then you would have a complaint, but if Calgary asked for funding after the Conservatives decided to cut down on spending then that's just bad timing.

Every one of those projects started after the West LRT. Some are very fresh examples, as they have yet to start.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Here's another fact about federal funding for Calgary. Current major Rapid Transit Projects across Canada;

Vancouver Evergreen Skytrain line extension: $1.4 Billion
Federal contribution $417 Million

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension $2.6 Billion
Federal contribution: $697 Million

Mississauga Bus Rapid Transit Project: $259 Million
Federal contribution: $83 Million

Ottawa LRT: $2.1 Billion
Federal contribution: $600 Million

Kitchener-Waterloo Rapid Transit/ LRT: $795 Million
Federal contribution: $265 Million


Calgary West LRT: $1.4 Billion
Federal contribution: $0


In Building Canada we got $54 million for Transit.

I find that hard to believe with Rob Anders representing me!