How do you quantify 4 years of your life taken away by the courts and state? The girl lied but at the end of the day it was the court's decision to assume him guilty based soley on word of mouth. Blame should be spread around here. Is there a president for this type of thing?
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At the hearing Friday morning, West seemed somewhat shaken while addressing Montgomery.
Much of what he does, he said, is assess witness character and credibility. "You look at witnesses, you look at things like eye contact, and you do what you think is right," he said.
Is it me or should the judge not be disciplined as there is admittance that a decision was based on eye contact and doing what you think is right? Basically saying a good liar will trump an innocent victim that's not a great in front of an audience? Flip a coin because of eye contact? That's a horrible addmitance of incompetance IMO.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 11-21-2012 at 12:29 PM.
Is it me or should the judge not be disciplined as there is admittance that a decision was based on eye contact and doing what you think is right? Basically saying a good liar will trump an innocent victim that's not a great in front of an audience? Flip a coin because of eye contact? That's a horrible addmitance of incompetance IMO.
You're never going to remove that from a system that relies on judges and juries. Everyone has their biases. It's why defendants get a haircut and wear their Sunday best when they go to court.
__________________ FU, Jim Benning
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GMs around the campfire tell a story that if you say Sbisa 5 times in the mirror, he appears on your team with a 3.6 million cap hit.
How do you quantify 4 years of your life taken away by the courts and state? The girl lied but at the end of the day it was the court's decision to assume him guilty based soley on word of mouth. Blame should be spread around here. Is there a president for this type of thing?
Is it me or should the judge not be disciplined as there is admittance that a decision was based on eye contact and doing what you think is right? Basically saying a good liar will trump an innocent victim that's not a great in front of an audience? Flip a coin because of eye contact? That's a horrible addmitance of incompetance IMO.
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Originally Posted by Super Nintendo Chalmers
You're never going to remove that from a system that relies on judges and juries. Everyone has their biases. It's why defendants get a haircut and wear their Sunday best when they go to court.
Yup. Our entire justice system is predicated on the assumption that the best evidence is oral evidence given under oath by witnesses to the events in question, and that trial judges are the best judges of a witness' credibility.
Unfortunately, it has been demonstrated time and time again that witnesses - particularly eye witnesses - are horribly unreliable, and that people are generally terrible at determining whether someone is lying or not. So, really, our trial system is based on a foundation that is known to be shaky.
On the bright side, in Canada at least, the courts have an acquittal bias: they lean towards acquitting people who are most likely guilty, rather than towards convicting people who are quite possibly innocent. That's why you see so many more stories about our weak-kneed justice system, rather than our harsh and punitive justice system.
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You're never going to remove that from a system that relies on judges and juries. Everyone has their biases. It's why defendants get a haircut and wear their Sunday best when they go to court.
I call BS on that. The system supposed to work on the presumption of "innocent until proven guilty"? Where does eye contact fall under beyond reasonable doubt? It doesn't. There was never enough evidence and the judge decided the fate of this man based on what the judge admitted as a hunch. Like someone already said in this thread the man should have never been sentenced to prison in the first place. IMO there should be discipline on the judge.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 11-21-2012 at 12:56 PM.
What the heck is wrong with some people that they could just go on without saying anything while someone innocent rots in prison. No guilt in the interview either... really makes me wonder how that detective managed to coax that lying confession out of her.
Apparently statues for wrongful convictions in Virginia aren't great. Certainly it's not going to remove the stigma of being labelled a rapist in the past nor will it repair all the damaged relationships. Probably better to move far away from state once he gets his compensation.
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Virginia 90% of the Virginia per capita personal income for up to 20 years. Tuition worth $10,000 in the Virginia Community College system. Exonerees also receive a transition assistance grant of $15,000, which is later deducted from the final award.
So he's entitled to 0.90*46107*4+25000 to roughly 191k in compensation for spending those 4 years in prison. Hopefully he sues the bitch and the state for more since it looks like he's not going to get that much money for the wrongful conviction.
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I call BS on that. The system supposed to work on the presumption of "innocent until proven guilty"? Where does eye contact fall under beyond reasonable doubt? It doesn't. There was never enough evidence and the judge decided the fate of this man based on what the judge admitted as a hunch. Like someone already said in this thread the man should have never been sentenced to prison in the first place. IMO there should be discipline on the judge.
Should juries be disciplined in similar cases of exoneration?
Should juries be disciplined in similar cases of exoneration?
I believe you are a lawyer, so I will ask you this. When a jury "hears" a case, are they given guidance by the judge? I would assume, that many sitting on a jury would not have an understanding of the application of law, and for want of a better term "legal thinking" (the majority of the populace doesn't look at legal matters as a lawyer/judge does).
How does a judge fit into a trail by jury, is it his job to make sure that sound legal thought/principles are used to reach the decision?
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
I believe you are a lawyer, so I will ask you this. When a jury "hears" a case, are they given guidance by the judge? I would assume, that many sitting on a jury would not have an understanding of the application of law, and for want of a better term "legal thinking" (the majority of the populace doesn't look at legal matters as a lawyer/judge does).
How does a judge fit into a trail by jury, is it his job to make sure that sound legal thought/principles are used to reach the decision?
In a jury trial the judge will instruct the jury on issues of law, the jury is responsible for making determinations of fact. The judge will tell them what they can consider, what they can't consider, what the legal standards are etc. (I'm not a criminal lawyer so this is a pretty basic overview). Your last line is a pretty good way to look at it, the judge is making sure that the jury is operating within the confines of the law and has throughout the trial been making sure that only permissible evidence is presented to the jury.
I'm sure someone who does this stuff could explain it better.
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Does anyone know if he has actually been released yet? They blocked his release due to a technicality (stating that the circuit judge did not have the jurisdiction to have him released) even though he was found innocent. Did a google search and only found articles regarding him not being released and other versions of the story.
N/M just found something that says he was finally released.
In a jury trial the judge will instruct the jury on issues of law, the jury is responsible for making determinations of fact. The judge will tell them what they can consider, what they can't consider, what the legal standards are etc. (I'm not a criminal lawyer so this is a pretty basic overview). Your last line is a pretty good way to look at it, the judge is making sure that the jury is operating within the confines of the law and has throughout the trial been making sure that only permissible evidence is presented to the jury.
I'm sure someone who does this stuff could explain it better.
This maybe outside you skill set, but does a judge have the ability to comment on a decision if he/she believes the jury did not make a correct finding?
In short, can a judge recommend a review of the jury's decision?
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
my experiance has always been that judges are dreadfull at having any idea of what is true or not in a courtroom, at least in the juvi system, my kids used to lie their teeth off regarding easily checked stuff, having a job or going to school etc, to get a lesser sentance and the judges would swallow it all hook line and sinker, I made it a policy to stay out of court in the end as if called to the stand I would end up screwing the defence on the pre disposition hearing.
This maybe outside you skill set, but does a judge have the ability to comment on a decision if he/she believes the jury did not make a correct finding?
In short, can a judge recommend a review of the jury's decision?
I believe a judge can set aside the verdict, very rare though.
Should juries be disciplined in similar cases of exoneration?
You would hope in the case of a jury that common sense would prevail due to more than one person making the decision. You would have to have a consensus of the jury having to agree that stories alone were enough to convict. If that's the case the girl was simply an excellent liar. What I see here is one man that maybe got some sort of vibe from the defendant's demeanor and felt he was lying. Really it's not his job to go on his gut as you need more evidence than simply her word against his and eye contact.
What I see here is one man that maybe got some sort of vibe from the defendant's demeanor and felt he was lying.
I see, and you were present during the trial? Or you're reading the guy's mind? Or are you just drawing conclusions on the thought process of someone who has years of experience making these kinds of determinations from a piecemeal quote printed in a newspaper story?
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What the heck is wrong with some people that they could just go on without saying anything while someone innocent rots in prison. No guilt in the interview either... really makes me wonder how that detective managed to coax that lying confession out of her.
Apparently statues for wrongful convictions in Virginia aren't great. Certainly it's not going to remove the stigma of being labelled a rapist in the past nor will it repair all the damaged relationships. Probably better to move far away from state once he gets his compensation.
So he's entitled to 0.90*46107*4+25000 to roughly 191k in compensation for spending those 4 years in prison. Hopefully he sues the bitch and the state for more since it looks like he's not going to get that much money for the wrongful conviction.
Two things about that video
1) I was more outraged at this story when I saw that she was fat and ugly
2) The only thing more annoying then the smug lying Miss Piggy is the over-the-top dramatic local reporter salivating at his shot at a national story.
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