What's the deal with the Mckenzie Towne traffic circle?

[Northendzone]

I think what is moderately confusing about the lines is that they show you being able to go straight thru the traffic circle, when you can't go straight because there are 5 entrances /exits.

I have lived in mak towne/ new Brighton for nigh on a dozen years, and I even navigated the traffic circle in reverse once, just to sayi did it, and I like the circle over the alternative of lights.

Seemed that over the last little while traffic was really backing up waiting to get into the circle in the morning.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I have lived in mak towne/ new Brighton for nigh on a dozen years, and I even navigated the traffic circle in reverse once, just to sayi did it, and I like the circle over the alternative of lights.

I'm planning on doing this on deerfoot tonight, just to say I did it.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I just called 311 to complain. All I had to say was "I'd like to lodge a complaint about changes to a traffic circle in my neighbourhood." She said "McKenzie Towne?"

It's not like there are a lot of others in the city.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Here's a PDF of the instructions. It has some diagrams of the change.
http://www.mckenzietowneca.com/wp-co...about.docx.pdf

Looking at that, it looks like they're trying to make it more like a Turbo Roundabout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundab...bo_roundabouts

[Rathji]

Given those instructions, I see what they are doing, and it makes more sense like that, but in practice there are a few things that really are not working the way they intend, or I just don't understand:

There are 2 lanes that someone can go into from the east entrance on McKenzie Towne Blvd, and I didn't realize that when I wrote the OP. In practice, it seemed like there was only 1 lane, because people driving around have not been coming back into the left lane after passing that entrance. People doing this essentially eliminates any potential benefit gained by the changes.

I mentioned in my first post that the west side of the circle, at McKenzie Towne Blvd, was 2 lanes, and apparently that is wrong. What concerns me about this is the fact that it operates differently than the other side, where traffic comes back to the left lane after being pushed to the outer lane. Not only is it confusing, but that means that people entering from the west side will have to cross the outer traffic lane to get into the left lane. I guess there might not be that much traffic on that portion of the circle, but it doesn't seem like a very good idea.

[SebC]

So basically they removed a lane from portions of the circle? Before it was a just a regular two-lane circle?

[Rathji]

Yep.

[Northendzone]

just seems like just another case of the government trying to take away services, and still collect the same amount of tax revenue.

[Nyah]

That's exactly what they did. I've noticed that it's also causing confusion when someone is approacing the circle in the right lane to take the first exit (Inverness, Elgin, etc.), and it goes down to one lane at that point as well. I used to come upon the circle and make sure no one was in the outside lane before continuing to take my turn, but now I don't think you can because of the traffic continuing around. I'm at a complete loss as to why they've done this. It's made things worse, and thanks to the vague signs, more and more people are going around the outside and not yielding to the vehicle on the left.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by getbak

Looking at that, it looks like they're trying to make it more like a Turbo Roundabout: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundab...bo_roundabouts

That's how I viewed it the first time as well. The markings are clearly designed to give primacy to people entering and exiting onto McKenzie Towne Blvd. I think the changes may make things a little better in the long run, but man, the timing and communication was just horrible.

[Ironhorse]

Just when I thought the city was getting progressive with some proper traffic circles, they go and mess it up again to suit the lowest common denominator (which with Calgary drivers is pretty low)...

[Russic]

I see that they've dropped it to one lane in two areas, but I have huge trust issues in that thing. I'm just not comfortable dropping into the outside lane on people when traffic circle knowledge is spotty at best. I nearly get t-boned once a week by the "H must yield to G" scenario described by Thor.

[allicat]

I think the problem is the signage, and I think someone mentioned it earlier. On the signs they indicate, if I remember correctly, 4 exits, when there are actually 5 (really, they couldn't have just confirmed the exits before making signs)? I think they should have just policed the traffic circle better and handed out tickets for those not doing it properly, not painted some vague signs on there making it confusing for others.

I always thought that outside lane takes 1st exit (or 2nd exit) and inside lane takes any other exits, and must signal/be cautious when exiting. For myself, I take this circle to go to the gym and I come from Deerfoot. Before I would take the inside lane and exit on the 2nd exit (always signaling and shoulder checking). Was I doing it wrong this whole time? Should I have been in the inside lane? Could I be in either lane. No one knows, apparently, and now it's even more confusing!

[Tiger]

I don't understand why the city thought that if the Traffic circle was screwing people up than why make it more confusing.

With the expectation that you have to exit, the first bad traffic day will be a nightmare.

I've seen lots of people do the traffic circle wrong, but the whole circle in itself worked fine before.

[Rathji]

As long as you yield to any traffic that wants to use the inner lane, you could previously drive around the outside lane the entire way. It really isn't considered the most defensive driving choice though.

As long as there is no one waiting to enter the traffic circle at the entrances you are passing, there is zero problems with driving around the outer lane. If there are people there, then you make it (slightly) harder for them to enter the circle, since they need to cross the lane you are in.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by allicat

I always thought that outside lane takes 1st exit (or 2nd exit) and inside lane takes any other exits, and must signal/be cautious when exiting. For myself, I take this circle to go to the gym and I come from Deerfoot. Before I would take the inside lane and exit on the 2nd exit (always signaling and shoulder checking). Was I doing it wrong this whole time? Should I have been in the inside lane? Could I be in either lane. No one knows, apparently, and now it's even more confusing!

Drivers Handbook:

Remember these safety tips:

•

Enter into the right-hand lane of a traffic circle when you intend to leave
at the first available exit point.

•

If you are planning to proceed to the second exit or beyond, it is
recommended that you use the left-hand lane.

•

When entering or leaving a traffic circle be aware there may be marked

pedestrian crosswalks

You're fine

[Jimmy Stang]

The biggest problem with this is that road markings aren't as effective in this climate due to the fact that they are often covered over with snow, gravel, etc. And they wear off a lot quicker than in other places. Unless there is some proper signage to go along with this, I can't see how this is an improvement.

Plus, as a fan of roundabouts, I just don't like the dumbing down of it. They are efficient and safer than traditional intersections. If the weak link is driver error (not unlike most traffic-related issues), then there needs to be more education, enforcement, and increased insurance premiums for those that can't figure it out and cause an accident. Just like anywhere else on the road.

I know that sounds harsh, but roundabouts work and we will be seeing more of them in this city. Probably not on the scale of the MacKenzie Towne one, but I'll take a roundabout over a 4-way stop or signalized intersection wherever practical.

[allicat]

Even in my own community we have 'traffic circles' (they are small ones with only one lane and a yield sign at the entrances to them) in place of 4 way stop intersections. The amount of people who don't look when approaching the circle is shocking. I can count off the top of my head 4-5 times that I have nearly t-boned someone who failed to glance to their left to ensure no one else was coming (and often I would get the 'what the hell are you doing?!?' look even though they had a yield sign ).

You can't fix stupid!

[Jimmy Stang]

So now there is a 3-page document explaining how to use the modified roundabout instead of 2 simple rules:

- Traffic already in the circle has the right of way over that entering it.
- The inside lane has the right of way over the outside lane.

And just like anywhere else on the road, if you don't have the right of way, then YIELD. These things couldn't be any easier, and shouldn't require a lengthy document explaining the "improvements".

[North East Goon]

They have to slap up a couple of these round-abouts in NE Calgary, then sit back and watch the hilarity ensue.